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The Advaita Show #024 – No More Questions
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March 12, 2006Questions for next week!
March 30, 2006The Advaita Show #024 (MP3 – 12MB – 33min)
Well it looks like the show is running aground. This week there are no guests, no more questions, and I’m thinking it’s perhaps time to take a month off. Whaddya think?!
117 Comments
Hello Bob, Cameron, and Barbara,
Great show ! Yes I am translating Bob’s “What’s wrong with right now, unless you think about it,” and so I am amazed HOW BOB EXPLAINS IT ALL, WITH SO MANY DETAILS !! so hearing the questions… I always feel WHY DON’T THEY READ THE BOOK, it is all written… all given !! but I know well enough that I had read the book and somehow I always felt that “I “did not let it go through … somehow I needed Bob’s presence to cut through this pile of images which I had believed to be ‘me’ and once seen, immediately it all vanished and with it, all the so-called problems.. all then is seen so clearly, it looks so obvious, so SIMPLE… that it is difficult to believe that we can miss it..
Love,
Laya
Hi Cameron,
Didn’t you read the 88 reactions about the the 023 Show????
What…no questions…?????
Rob
Yeah Rob I read them but they weren’t many questions!
Hi Cameron,
There were a few questions, but there are listeners plenty, I guess.
I have a question about the relationship between the Real Me and the Person (the seen object). There must be an connection, for body and mind are not invented by the Object. But as long as the Real Me is for ever Unknown, not to be grasped, we’ll nover know how the relation between the No-Thing and the Thing works.
Is that right?
Some teachers say that you can’t do anything about the person and the world. The world organises itsself.
But when in Clarity there is knowing of inadequate behaviour of the Person, will there be a reaction from the No-thing in favour of the Thing?
Many thanks,
Rob
Hi 🙂
Ok, i am listening and cleaning sofa at the same time. I have idea, as au-pair, i will try tell my employer, that (according to that there is noone) “i have not done anything today” :-).. rather not, thank you. Comment for Barb.. (is it Bobs wife?): I am doing all or nearly all the housework as au-pair in here, i am still not mother or woman, but i have the same mother’s feeling for our kids.. the real mnother is running the business and making the money, and i am paid a little bit from that, and i have free living in here. It is already 1 and half year, that i am here, in UK, with this family. So, although i do not have anything to say, i feel something, as anyone living does, and although i do not give it words, it si still here – that what i am. I hope you are fine and healthy and lucky(happy) in that australia … be well michal
Little story: Yesterday I refused to play football with kids because i wanted to fix something on my computer first. I said it loudly, this “No, I got something else to do” in front ot their mum, fot the first time here, i refused something without fear and with explaining the reasons to the older kid. But he kept trying and i kept explaining, “I got something else to do, i am sorry”. Well, this brave silly attemptt ended with angry mother arguing with me and making me work harder on cleaning the house up, as “it is really messy”. Would you overcome such a nasty situation silentlly? Does mum and employer have allways truth? At the end, I said few times, that i am sorry, that boys are not less important to me, than my computer and that she is right.. in few other things. So, brave attempt was beaten in its root. 🙂 Never want to be true facing mother, that is your employer at the same time, because it is not worth it. Funny on it is that, that there will be no profit from it to anyone, as disappointments or distemer doesn’ t make any good, it allways only destroys. Or is it usefull Bob? Is there anything good in bad? Is good to be humble? PS I don not know who is asking the question. 😉
I am
i .
i
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Keep Barb.. Take Bob out and take time off. It was all in your first podcast.. .
Thanks again..
Hi Charlie,
Yes, You are That, but Charlie is searching for work. Is Charlie an independent object of That what you are? Is there any traffic possible between The Real Me and Rob, or can I (Me) rest in Peace…… and just see what’s happening.
I know that as soon as make any conclusion or plan about Rob, I’m in the realm of thinking. I’m immediately Rob again. I See all of this. So I am ‘what sees’, and I do what is to be seen as Rob.
This can be confusing.
Rob
Oh yeh: on http://www.chakraplein.nl/non-dualiteit.htm I have an old quote of you in Dutch. I wrote that page a year ago, I guess.
Cameron, Bob.
over and out.
Thanks for the valient effort.
Cameron, please do not take a month off. I work on a computer all day and need the shows to keep me sane. I know, I know, WHO is sane?
QUESTION:
It seems that breaking the physical world down to ‘Intelligence Energy’ is very similar to what science has always attempted to do. But, you seem to get some freedom from the discovery. Why is knowing that everything is THAT freeing, but knowing that everything is made up of atoms not? Couldn’t we just as easily say “It’s all just atoms and molecules moving around so why get stressed?” It all makes sense, yet I still have anxiety, why?
thanks,
corey
Time off??? no way, how will all us Boblets survive???
well, Advaita can be summed up in one sentence, we all know that. All the books from Nisargadatta to Guy smith say the same thing over and over and over again, but I donot honestly think we all listen to the show to get our questions answered, we all know what the answer is, but having someone like Bob give LIVE POINTERS is so incredible, atleast to me, who lives in no close proximity to an Advaita Guru. sometimes the truth is repeated a million times and it gets driven home at the millionth time and not before.
so, WE ALL NEED U GUYS, BETTER MAKE THE TIME OFF A SHORT ONE (2 WEEKS)
Regards
ravi
Hi Cam and Bob,
Hope you don’t take a month off…I’ve enjoyed the weekly fun…
QUESTION:
I understand that the ‘search’ for enlightenment is over….the seeking for happiness is done…I feel that…
what I completely disagree with you about, is your notion that we can’t, or don’t, control our actions. It’s true that “I” do nothing to beat my own heart, or breathe, but I do believe I can choose whether or not to do my work today, instead of watch TV. I do believe that I can decide to hold my tongue instead of say something mean to someone… I can learn from past errors and make healthier choices…
You once told me that life is like a dream, and in your dream, you’re not in control…..you just watch everything unfold……
Are you saying this ‘waking’ life is really the same? And that the reason we have no free will is that we are being dreamt? Can you use other metaphors to back up your assertion that there is no free will?
Say, for example, one of your kids does something that you think is foolish or harmful—something you believe he should know better. You’re still going to believe he has enough control over his actions and decisions to make a better choice, no??
Hey guys, why not take a year off? Bob’s tits must be getting real sore from all that wet-nursing. Still attached? Find some courage, Barb’s got more balls than the lot of you! Too much time on yer hands, get busy….
Ok – for some inexplicable reason I seem compelled to ask a question, not sure why but I can’t seem to fight it:
No free will means no choice to seek or not, to find or not, to tune in or not. Why do we have to go through all this shit if we aren’t going anywhere? [And yeah, it’s fine for you guys who have seen through the illusion, but for the rest of us schmucks it is *really* tedious]
Kia ora,
Jason
Well, I found the aswer of my question on Bob’s website.
“Likewise with humans: without belief in a self-center, anything, including mental concepts, change or action can come about naturally to suit whatever situation arises.
However, if the self-center, ego, or reference point is believed to be something substantial with an independent nature of it’s own–an existing ‘me’ or an ‘I’–then whatever arises is referred to this ‘me’ and, instead of being a natural functioning, it occurs as a contrived state, such as fear, anxiety, stress, etc., because that entity, being non-existent, cannot live up to what is imagined. And even when hearing about non-conceptual natural functioning, still believing in a reference point, useless and contrived attempts continue to be made to live up to or recreate some concept of that.
Thus, there appears to be a great difference between natural functioning without any belief in a reference point, and the imagined, conceptual, acquired mental habits caused by the old belief in a separate entity”.
According to Bob.
Well……..Laya, I have listened to you and I’ ve ordered two of the books of Bob,
but I rather hear him explain, with a lot of laughs about the stupidity of the One who plays trough us, while we allways the One itsself.
R+o+b
“The answer is not in the mind”
Nadeem the skeptic never pauses to see… what? I’m trying to challenge the existence of the ‘ungraspable’. It’s not just me that can’t grasp “THAT”, no organism in the universe can. It is just presumed to exist, like “god” or like “life essence” was before biology enlightened us. There is no need for “THAT” or “awareness” to exist before anything else can exist, that seeming necessity is created by a definition.
Cameron, I noted that your search came to a point where you were thinking: if i’m not that, what am I? What’s with the second part? Why did you need to be something? Why were you determined to find something that you ARE? Sure, you think you failed to find some-thing, but did you really? Oh yeh and, maybe it’s just me, but I detected no hostility or fighting from anyone during those 88 comments last week. The mind can make something out of nothing ;).
Pointers refer to ‘that knowing that you are’. Any ‘knowing that you are’ is a human sense/feeling/thought. You feel that you can’t negate the sense that ‘you are’ because the “I am” faculty of the brain is prior to the thinking and doubt faculties of the brain. It is not an undeniable fact that ‘you’ exist. Who exists? Isn’t there just the pure seeing, hearing, feeling, thinking etc? Oh, whoops, these are just questions of the mind, which can never grasp “THAT”.
Rob,
thanks. Right on pf course. Paradox Is
There is no Is
You have been podcasting since July 05 u both deserve a break. No One enjoys the show more than (me!) but maybe we are all getting a little attached to it all. Maybe all the questions have been asked…….. Why not repeat some of the early shows and rebrand them as classics.
Could Bob comment on spiritual powers?
healings? seeing into the future? changing the future?
The show was great. Really enlightening! Thanks for this gift.
Perhaps there should be rules such as one post per person per show.
Question: Bob mentioned “love”. A follower of Ranjit Maharaj told me that many Advaitans think too much, and they need to love more. Could Bob tell me how love fits into the Advaita equation?
Cameron, Bob,
I suggest you give your apparent selves a well-earned break. You and your guests have done great work over the last 24 shows, and I congratulate you on a job well done.
In the meantime, those of us who think we exist still have Bob’s books, as well as James Braha’s fabulous collection of talks with the Man Himself, “Living Reality”.
If we still have questions, I suggest following Mark’s style above and putting the word QUESTION in big friendly letters on a line by itself before launching into the question itself. That way, Cameron might find it a little easier to pick out the questions.
Stan
Folks,
While waiting for the next show here’s a Buddhist booklet which is not too different from Bob’s teaching, for those interested:
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/books/bhikkhubuddhadasa_heart_wood_from_the_bo_tree.htm
That Stan is a nice man 🙂
Cameron has already made a go a month without a show. I say that’s enough of a break
“LOVE IS” ……………. Cameron giving “US” 60 minutes of his busy life once a week!!
Is the show interfering with his day job?
You know Cameron it’s like what you said about you writing a book on advaita after a couple pages what the hell more do you say. Same with the podcast , after 24 shows if people can’t find an answer in all that , they got shit for brains! I say take off as long as you fricken feel like. I’m thankful for what you and Bob have given us.
Of course there’s nothing more to say….there’s nothing to achieve….
But life still goes on….because it DOES….just for fun….
Why does an artist keep painting pictures even after achieving his masterpiece?
just like the Advaita Show….
Cameron and Bob have given us the show for free…no one should have any complaints…just be grateful….
If Cameron needs time off, so it is….
BUT!
Cam….hope you don’t think there’s nothing more to say! Bob has been speaking about Advaita for 30 years, and seems happy to keep at it. Why? I suspect it’s because its’ enjoyable. It’s what he does….
The show is fun, it adds fun and value to our lives. Do we need it? No. But then again, maybe some of us do….look at that suicidal fella you helped. That was episode 23!
The Advaita Show saves lives! Hope you keep it up!
jason,
as ‘my’ understanding goes no free will does not mean there is no choice whether to seek or not, but rather that seeking will happen if it is destined to happen, based on your (psychosomatic apparatus’s) past memories, experiences and the will of THAT. and since there is no way of knowing what is destined to happen, we go about apparently choosing and what we so choose is what was destined to happen anyways. Any one of us can jump off a cliff if we so chose, but we wont because our programming does not allow us that freedom. I guess thats why they say, go on living as if it really mattered…
I could be wrong…
any comments???
ravi
p.s ramesh elaborates a great deal about it in his newer books
~ free will ? vs. no free will ? ~
there is a lot of noise about there being “no free will” in various settings … that the person with power to change anything is a fiction and we are being lived by the divine or the absloute or whatever label you hang onto the Infinite Ascendant Isness …
Is that your experience?
The truth is incontrovertible … you know it beyond doubt. But turn it into a belief, based on a MEMORY of being lived by that Absolute, and you have perverted the truth and formed a flat LIE … the memory is NOT the Real, Is it?
Experience is, now and immediate, the herenowness of presence, a moment of timelessness so to speak … isn’t it?
The truth believed is a LIE. Isn’t it? Look and see …
But what is there to elaborate about? There’s no person anywhere to have or not have free-will.
Its seems that thoughts that arise are the only so called facts that we have about free will or some independent entity. It is so very obivous. Awareness doesnt tell us anything because we are that. Thoughts try to tell us a bunch of thing and telling that we are this and that, but in reality they are not saying anything, they’re just tiny invisible and yet heavily overrated appearences.
What knocked out the last attempt for me to get “it” was to realize that every doubt that i had were as well only thoughts. Since thoughts cant tell you anything, why listen to them?
But total love to Cam and Bob, I really love their show and hope they do what they do!
Hi Cameron and Bob,
Long time listener, first time questioner. I thoroughly enjoy the show.
Question:
Cameron: Can you please explain in detail why there is no free will and why it can never be proven? It seems that no matter what freedom we feel we have, there may always exist a “box” of reference around it, making it determined from that viewpoint. For example, I may believe i am choosing the words of this question, but from “higher” point of reference (or no reference at all), this is simply one point an action taking place where I, as the doer, am on equal terms with the act itself, having no control.
Looking “down” from this reference point, things are simply this, but from the phenomenal world peering “up,” there is a me and there are choices.
In this way, it seems that free will can never be proven. Is this what you mean?
I ask this question in order to apply this perspective to consciousness itself. It seems that consciousness, too, can never be proven. Does this seem to be an accurate parallel?
Thank you very much, best wishes to you both from Chicago, IL.
Cam, Take a break mate.
Bob, Luv Ya.
or as we say in Qzztrailya. “She be right Mate” 🙂
Bernie, the quick answer is there is no free will because there is no-one to have free will. The longer answer is this: can you explain to me in detail how you create a new thought? Which neurone do you squeeze and how do you do it? If you can explain the process to me, i might believe you have free will. If you can’t…
cameron…
thanks a lot for the quick reply. i understand in theory that there is no one to have free will, but i have not realized this experientially. i do know that different parts of the brain are more active during different types of thinking, but i do not know that thought originates in the brain. what i *do* know is that thoughts seem to arise and disappear from/into something (“that”). indeed, it does seem that they do this of their own accord, almost randomly. but the awareness of these thoughts can follow them, extrapolate them, or even identify with them. i understand that we can call following, extrapolation, or identification just more thoughts themselves, and say that the awareness does not actually interact with thought, but is simply aware of them. but does this mean it/that has no relationship to thoughts, or that when we identify with thoughts that they do not influence and perpetuate themselves? i appreciate you taking time to respond. i hold your view that free will is a joke, so to speak, but i am interested in seeing this more clearly. thanks again, i truly love your show. -bernie
Bernie, all I can tell you is that from my experience, as you say, thoughts seem to appear and disappear. Even the “identifying” thoughts are… more thoughts. I know for a fact that I’m not deliberately controlling or causing them (the usual definition of free will) because I wouldn’t know where to begin to cause a thought. Something is aware of the thoughts. Some call that something “the awareness”. I don’t call it anything. All I can say is that there is awareness. Everything else is secondary, conceptual and therefore unimportant to me.
Cam / Bernie –
Resonating here with you guys…..
Thoughts, and everything that goes with them, clearly happen on their own, spontaneously – no need to build stories around them.
And it doesn’t take much investigation to see that “free will” is pure imagination.
Yet, as you say, something is aware of it all. What else can there be, and what else can we be, than that awareness itself — where else can this sense of identity come from? (rhetorical question – don’t answer)
It reminds me of what Nisargadatta emphasized in “I AM THAT”,
to stay with the sense of “I am”, like he did. “Take the first step.”
Love what you’ve done, Cam and Bob….
Take a break…. but come back sometime soon!
Sure, it’s all been said….
but what else is there worth talking about?
Love ya,
Ken
Ken, there is always… NAPOLEON!
Check out napoleon.thepodcastnetwork.com
🙂
Although I feel myself to be the whole world, does this make it so?
I didn’t always feel this way, maybe it will pass?
Master Zen,
Feelings come and go. There is that which neither comes nor goes. The Steady. But you already know this.
The above is my humble reply until Bob returns to us to answer you properly.
Best wishes,
R.
Cameron says: “Something is aware of the thoughts.”
Wrong. This is conceptual.
“All I can say is that there is awareness.”
Nope. All you can say is that there are sensations, thoughts and feelings. The added ‘awareness’ bit is conceptual. A deep sense of “I am” is still a sense. No ‘awareness’ needed. What does “awareness” mean in that specific sentence?
If I say ‘thoughts see themselves’, perhaps you would object. Question why and that should show you your concepts.
Nadeem,
Thanks for your comments, not sure that I agree with them but sure got me thinking/looking.
If you say there are sensations, thoughts and feelings then to me it’s the same as saying there is awareness( where does thought end and feeling begin?) isn’t it all the same thing …This !…. ?… I know it’s a concept but I would prefer to say there is “This” than anything else let alone split it into thoughts,feelings and sensations.
Here there seems to be nothing that resembles a thought seeing itself. Try looking at a thought , there’s nothing to see. Also a “pure thought” has definetely never been seen here.
I know it’s against the spiritual rules to say it’s many things when you can generalise and call it something mystical. We are necessarily labelling things here, to communicate. Group the sensations and call it all “THIS” if you want, but don’t then make it more than it is. I will gladly group them and call it ‘human consciousness’. It depends what attributes and properties you’re then ascribing to “THAT”.
Words like “Sensations” mean something, whereas “THIS” doesn’t really mean anything and can be shaped as ‘god’, ‘the universe’, ‘awareness’ and all such nonsense.
A “thought” could, by its very nature, be perceived. If you think it takes something else to ‘see’ the thought, then that would be the mind inventing the need and a new object to ‘see it’.
If it was “awareness” that is needed to see thoughts: How does the mind know what thoughts there have been? If the mind itself doesn’t inherently know the thoughts that are happening, how does this universal ‘awareness’ tell it?
Can someone please read my above questions about Free Will and answer in a language or metaphor that I can relate to and understand? I’ve read Cam’s and I still don’t understand his reasoning after many attempts. Love ya cam…
Who cares if I don’t have the power to create a thought? What does that have anything to do having the FREE WILL to act upon those thoughts? My definition of free will is voluntary decision to act and choose….Even if there is no “me” here, WHAT then, makes my decisions for “me”?
In the 12 Steps………..”Made a decision to turn our will and life over to God as we know him”.
Who MAKES that decision if there is no entity with the capacity to choose? …with the FREE WILL to choose?
Mark, the brain chooses. The thinking and choosing faculties of the brain. Further back, every decision and thought of the brain is probably mechanically determined by countless factors and universal processes.
No spiritual rules here, nothing against labelling or concepts,
just a passion for This that we are talking about.
Thoughts seem to occur in the mind , and are stored as memory in the mind,
clearly the ones that are remembered are the ones ‘brought to awareness’, you may call that awareness human consciousness or God if you like , what difference does it make? it’s only a label, but the awareness doesn’t call itself anything.
Obviously naming it “awareness” is another label, but that concept is definetely not what I’m talking about.
Okay, let me hit you with a little Buddhism. There is the Unborn, beyond all this, and the born. The born, the human, consists of 5 aggregates. There is the physical body, cognition, perception (recognition), sensation, and reaction (mental conditioning). We are generally conscious (cognition) and walk past someone who reminds us of Uncle Joe (perception), there follows physical sensations (pleasant or unpleasant sensations depending on how we feel about Uncle Joe), then we react to the sensations by sweating, feeling uncomfortable, and acting badly to our family when we get home. These reactions are choiceless but can be controlled by learning to be neutral to sense objects or to bodily sensations.
Mark:
I will give a shot at your question.
Plan a) to explain:
If a truck is about to hit you. “You” jump. Very often you are not even aware of an object that is about to hit you, still there is an action/reaction by the body to avoid it.
At these instance there is never a “Person Mark” making that decision. You are usually being informed afterwards in a quick thoughtcascade of the event that happened. (There is some neurobiology stuff that does try to exp,ain that as well)
Plan b) to explain:
Let us say your girlfriend/ boyfriend comes to you and slaps you in the face telling you that you are a bastard. Let us see if you have any choice in the feelings and thoughts that will come afterwards.
Plan c) to explain: If you can read up on the Experiments on Benjamin Libet.
Plan d) to explain:
Select a decision you “think” you have made nd now make a list of the things/people that might have had an influence on the decision you made.
Let us take the example. A student wakes up and decide to get out of bed. But he can only get out of bed because he bought this new bed., He bought this new bed because he “decided” to move to another city with a better university. He choose that university bevause he read an article in the newspaper about this university. The newspaper was in the bhouse because his father had subscribed to the newspaper. He lives with his father because …etc. etc.
Do you catch my drift. This is just one supposedly linear causality chain going back and back …. There are many others if you start with the bed. The bed had to be built by a carpenter etc. etc.
So all theses “events” from the past to only influence your “decision” but sometimes theyare the only ground for it.
In any “decision” you make you can go back in “causality” and you will end at your birth and even further back at the birth of this reality/universe (if there ever was one).
In short.
Your decision is not really a free choice because the entire universe had to come into being so that “you” could appear to have your free choice. Meaning the entire universe has an influence on “you” (smell, the colors,the object/entities …) to make your decision and the entire universe is influenced by you.
and further …
Now what if there is no separation between you and the rest of the universe?
(read up on quantum physic which supports that view)
If there is no subject seperated from the rest, is it not so that the entire universe appears to be acting through you?
Well some lenghty stuff and ranting.
Hope you have some fun reading it.
The understanding will never come through the words.
Cheers
The meaning I gave for ‘human consciousness’ was simply a word for the collection of sensations, thoughts and feelings in our immediate experience. That’s very different from the “awareness” that is normally discussed here and very, very different from any definition of “God” I’ve ever heard. To prevent confusion, I like to individually label them: sensations, feelings and thoughts.
Consciousness is not “all there is”, for example. Sensations, thoughts and feelings are produced from matter collecting into a complex nervous system and forming senses. “Human consciousness” comes from matter.
Advaitins are saying that there is something else out there: something as unnecessary and unprovable as the old “God” concept. Something that is vague enough to allow it to be confused with the deeper sense of ‘self’ that remains after the psychological ego disappears.
I came across a review for a book that mentioned that the “Pure being – I am” experience of god is just one of seven different states that are hardwired into the brain. Haven’t read it yet though ;). Deepak Chopra’s “How to find God: The Soul’d Journey Into the Mystery of Mysteries”.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0609805231/sr=8-1/qid=1142533341/ref=sr_1_1/103-2512102-4382266?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Don’t waste your time in arguments and discussion
attempting to grasp the ungraspable.
Each thing reveals the One
The One manifests as all things.
To live in this Realization
is not to worry about perfection or non-perfection.
To put your trust in the Heart-Mind
is to live without separation,
and in this non-duality you are one with your Life-Source.
Words! Words!
The Way is beyond language.
for in it there is
no yesterday
no tomorrow
no today.
-By Seng Ts’an, the third Zen Patriarch
Bob said it all in one word: s t o p .
No thanks charlie. It is rare for people to ever attain the altered state of consciousness you experience. Sages waste the vast majority of seekers’ time and LIVES with pointers, pushing something that admittedly doesn’t make sense… “to the mind”. There is no ‘ungraspable’ ONE.
Nadeem,
If you think this sort of approach is, in fact, a waste of time, why are you so embroiled in it?
or.. to put it another way.. why are all of us “so embroiled in it”?
Thanks Tan, Nadeem, for tackling my free will issues! Pretty good stuff.
Tan, your examples do help a bit….
I am aware of having experienced situations where decisions were made, naturally, situations that resolved themselves without “ME” feeling like “I” did the deciding—even though it appeared so. I simply acted from my inner truth, simply REacted to information coming my way in what felt like an easy, natural way….and my reaction or response was ‘organic’ and without fanfare…”I” was the medium through which the decision manifested…
In other words, The Decision was made for “me”. “I” didn’t do it. According to Sailor Bob, I never did any of it anyway.
I’m getting there people….slowly….;)
O.k., Nadeen has troubles with Advaita. Well read the experiences of Metta Zetty.
Metta Zetty is an ordinary woman whose understanding of
the nature of Reality has been profoundly transformed by
an extraordinary experience of spontaneous awakening.
In this timeless moment of intuitive recognition, Metta
experienced a sudden, stunning insight into the nondual
nature of Reality — a realization which has traditionally
been described as:
# Advaita, “Not-Two” (Vedanta)
# Dzogchen, “Natural Great Perfection” (Tibetan Buddhism)
# Kensho, “The Essence of One’s Being” (Zen Buddhism).
Her awakening was spontaneous.
Rob
Sorry, the links about Metta Zetty fell off during copy and paste:
http://www.chakraplein.nl/Epiphany.htm
http://www.awakening.net/
When you read this, why leave Bob? There is no need. It’s all Me and You, all that there is.
Rob
Sensations , thoughts and feelings are all known. They must be known otherwise how can they even be mentioned , Whether it comes from matter or God isn’t important. How can anyone deny the Awakeness without which you can’t even know yourself?..Explaining it away into safe scientific terms is a great way to pretend that there is no awakeness concomitant with sensations, thoughts, feelings , matter, rain, taste etc ..
That awakeness is a mystery that science cannot explain away and which Advitans also cannot explain convincingly into God or Oneness or anything else grand , but without it
no science and no Advita.
Metta Zetty fell into the altered state of consciousness without prompting from teachers, good for her I suppose. Ramana Maharshi was the same, right? Gives more weight to it being a natural altered state of consciousness that is available but still VERY rare for humans. Most people who listen to The Advaita Show will never achieve what the hosts have. From my own experience and from what I read of others’, it’s not the happiest ‘path’ either.
What am I still doing here? I argue like I’ve held these beliefs for years yet it’s been about two weeks. 😀 Trying to shorten the seeking of others, venting past frustrations, getting egotistical pleasure from debating, helping humanity progress, saving the whales… I dunno exactly why my ego has chosen to do this yet. I’m guessing I’ll be here for another few weeks but say if you want me to leave now. Perhaps this is a place for pure ‘a-rational’ seeking.
What if I’m right? What if it IS just an altered state of consciousness? The doctrine that “The answer is not in the mind” will keep you from ever finding out. I agree that the key to this state is not in the mind but that phrase is used to silence rational criticism.
Gareth, lose the ‘awakeness’ concept. Is ‘awakeness’ necessary to see sights? No more than ‘caronthegroundness’ is necessary to drive or ‘typingonthekeyboardness’ is necessary to post this. All there is in your experience is sensations, thoughts (including the thought about “awakeness”) and feelings.
Dear Mark,
you are there and you have always been there.
you never left and were never on a trip towards it.
So far you just have been believing to be not there and to be not IT.
nothing more. that ll probably change sometime.
Nadeem
I can lose the awakeness concept but not the actual awakeness can you?
Go on do it now , have just sensations of seeing these words without the awareness of them going on.
Are you really saying that where you are there is no awareness?
Yes awakeness/awareness/consciousness is most definetely necessary to see sights, can you see the objects in your basement without turning the lights on?
I have no problem with you being here and find your contributions interesting, until I get bored and do something else.
Also in my experience people never achieve what the hosts have , they simply see that they already are that.
Best wishes
Gareth
Hi Cameron
There is a new Doctor Who starting this sat. on the SciFi channel if you guys get that downunder. Hi-Ho Tardis.
“Are you really saying that where you are there is no awareness?”
Depends, what is your definition “awareness”?
A dictionary reference:
awareness
n 1: having knowledge of; “he had no awareness of his mistakes”; “his sudden consciousness of the problem he faced”; “their intelligence and general knowingness was impressive”
According to that definition, yes there is ‘awareness’ here. It is, however, just a convention of language and not a ‘thing’ or a “no-thingness”. I’m aware that 1+1=2. I ‘have’ the awareness that 1+1=2.
oops, most important part: There is NO “actual awakeness”.
A computer is also “aware” that 1+1=2, but I suspect that there is a bit more to you than that.
Anyhow at this point I admit defeat you have convinced me that you really aren’t there
& that all your are is a group of unaware sensations floating around in the darkness.
oops, most important part : There is NO.. ” There is NO “actual awakeness””.
I’m bored now so see you around in the Great non-awareness.
You’re right, Gareth, there certainly is more to this human than knowing 1+1=2. I don’t know your definition of ‘awareness’, but strangely it seems to have something to do with light.
QUESTION:
Bob, What is the process or procedure for “FULL STOP”? What is the reference point to measure “stoppedness”? Appearances seem to indicate that what is going on continues to go on regardless of stopping, starting, backing up or turning sideways.
stop.
g’day
g’bye
Popdog, do you mean “new” as in the series we watched a year ago? 🙂
I have nothing to say but wanted to write the 70th post to get rid of the heading “69 Responses”. It’s so obscene.
You,re probably right Cameron. I quess we get sloppy seconds here in the U.S. on British productions. I feel stupid.
Nadeem,
After nearly 40 years of doing so myself and now having stopped, I suggest you stop the mental masterbation. Its a habit that keeps being done because it gives pleasure. But all you get is endless coming with new questions. You will NEVER know the answer. You can never know the answer. It is impossible. If you disagree with that then you haven’t investigated this for yourself. Simple reasoning will show you this. So drop all your mental concepts about consciousness and so on and look for yourself, look in your own mind.
As an example, try investigating infinity, not the word but the actual, the essence of what that label infinity points to. Don’t just settle with another label for it like endless or forever. That is just substituting one label for another. Push beyond all labels, try to imagine it. What does it really mean?
Don’t stop pushing until you start to feel sick or like you are going mad! That will give you some direct experience.
Bob says all this but it seems we only hear what we want to hear and that is what fits in with our comfortable view of the world. Direct Advaita is not a comfortable route, that is what was found by direct experience.
neal.
Have an excellent month off.
Hi Cameron
It’s old idea but how about skype-ing in some guests.people like James Braha,Douglas Harding or his friend Richard Lang ,Ramesh,John Wheeler or others who would love to talk with Bob.
To paraphrase Gareth above they could “have a excellent mouth off”
Nadeem & Neal,
The final understanding is that there is no one there to understand. It is final because once known, the search is dropped as meaningless.
It’s all consciousness in action here…….
Has anyone seen my Self…I seemed to have lost it….!
Dear Mr Ed (the Speaking Horse)
Place yourself before the pc-screen. Read your question and realize Who or What is seeing this message……
Congratulations!
You have found your Self!
Your Own Self
Steve, there is some talk of doing a regular podcast with Ramesh. Stay tuned for more news on that. As for the other folks, yeah we could do that. What for though? Ever wonder how interesting a show between John or James and Bob would be? This is how most of my conversations with Bob have gone over the years whenever I paid him a visit.
“Hi Bob”
“Hi Cameron”
“You well Bob?”
“Yes I am Cameron. You?”
“I’m well Bob.”
“You are that Cameron.”
“Yes, I know Bob.”
“Ok well… keep up the good work then Cameron.”
“Ok thanks Bob. See ya.”
Riviting stuff. That’s pretty much what I thought this show would be like until you crazy people started sending in questions that made me laugh.
How come I don’t hear anybody talking about the love and joy that’s emanating out of their beingness?
There is love and joy emanating out of my beingness.
Oh .. and nastyness and B.S. and everything else.
Cam –
QUESTION FOR BOB –
Ramesh Balsekar says ‘the movie is already in the can’ – your life is already written. Please comment in light of the understandin that there is only the Now and everything is arising in that.
thanks,
Helen
So, um…is the Advaita Show really taking a month off?
something like that
So much laughing and enjoyment listening to the Show from Here, in Koh Phangan Thailand. No roads, no electricity, just jungle and the Show (unloaded and shared with me by Nathan) and more…
Cameron, I like to call it EL BEBE (THE BABY in spanish) or SPAGUETTI, in case you like this words better than the Intelligence energy or whatever That is.
Bob, you are so sweet, i hardly understand you because I am not english speaking, but I agree with everything!
QUESTION: Cameron, can you read slower some of the questions? I know the answer but I would like to understand some more of the questions.
Kisses
Pilar
I just checked out the Napoleon photos, and then some. Cameron’s smokin’…. I didn’t hold out any hope for a world with smokin’ advaitans but you’ve proved me wrong.
Hallelujah!
Polly
For “something like that” do we read No Thing Like That?
Whatever happened to the top ten podcast list?
Was wondering about making a note in my diary for the future…… but what the hell
Not coming up with a date for us listeners is just “Not Cricket” but I guess that says it all :{
thanks for your efforts and humor, Cameron!
I love the non-advaita speak. keep it real…normal.
We really need a translator for some of the speakers above. I really have no interest hearing what people know on these postings. I just want to hear from you and Bob.
Good luck to whatever happens…
high five to you Cameron
Love to Bob
Brian
If this is all an illusion, then it wouldn’t affect our lives at all. If EVERYTHING is an illusion then this amounts to a simple renaming of the universe: “illusion”, nothing changes. It’s like adding something to both sides of an equation. So, put simply, it doesn’t matter one iota that this may be an “illusion”. In a similar way, knowing that you are already “THAT” also changes nothing. Only your new ‘self’ identity as a loving, peaceful universal “awareness” changes your behaviour.
In unquestioning devotion to the guru.
nadeem
“your” new identity is as useless (though maybe entertaining) as the previous one.
identity does not change behaviour.
noone however does.
In unquestioning devotion to my very own fat ass.
I enjoy your shows a lot. Long time advaitist from Winfield, IL. Keep up the good work and give Bob a clip on mike.
This sites becoming like a ghost town.
Nadeems last post sent everyone running. 🙂
Glad to be of service 😉
this space intentionally left As It IS …
Nadeem,
As I understand it there is no new identity. What is being spoken of is unchanging, doesn’t come and doesn’t go, nothing anew.
Question for Bob Adamson:
It seems you speak mainly of awareness. To Siddharameshwar awareness is the 4th state, turiya. But beyond this is the non-state, Parabrahman, prior to/beyond the 4 states. Could you please describe Parabrahman and how it relates to your teaching?
Question for Bob Adamson:
What is the highest truth?
Thanks Mr. Adamson and Cameron.
How would Bob know the “highest truth”?
Surely he can only tell you what there is in his (body’s) experience, albeit in strange and confusing terms.
Warning: Please don’t feed the skeptic.
Nameem:
“I am” is that so strange and confusing?
Bob gets forced into answering questions that are unrelated to his basic message. In fact, the seeker, with the help of some teachers, complicate the message with discussions of many items that are strange, confusing mind food. For example, reincarnation, heaven, hell, omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience and who makes the best beer?
apologies for messing with your name.. Nadeem.. typo.
If you are hanging out for some great audio, you might like to check out this talk from Phil Mistleberger, Advaita teacher, refers to oneness, A Course in Miracles, Gurdjieff, christianity, buddhism, hinduism – links it together in an interesting fashion.
http://www.miraclescenter.us/mistlberger3.htm
My own experience is that far away from the mind/world, somewhere deep inside myself it is like being underwater, with only a little light, and very still.
Who, or what, is looking through your eyes reading these words?
Can you name IT?
Isn’t it the same nameless thing/no/thing in each of us?
“Who, or what, is looking through your eyes reading these words?”
…And that’s how the delusion works. With those kind of questions, people will not notice the assumption in there that there needs to be a ‘who’ or ‘what’ looking through the eyes. There is no ‘me’, no ‘Self’, so there is only the sensations as they are.
“But who is seeing the sensations?”…. 😀
Our Lord and Master :
The All Knowing “SENSATION”
To thee I bow and pay reverence
ATTENTION:
In order to make this website less cluttered, Gary has set up a website so we can discuss Advaita topics among ourselves and free up space on this website for questions to Bob. The website is http://www.groups.google.com/group/AdvaitaNow
Hey Cameron-
You invited me to email you, but I can’t find your address. Mine is [email protected], just remove the XYZ.
peace,
James
Hi James,
By scrolling down this site I found Cameron’s site & on it he listed his email address as: http://[email protected]
Sorry,
It is without the www.
Hey I was wondering if you could ask Bob to talk about what I have heard referred to as “temporary enlightenment.” For example, why is it possible that a completely awake person in this sense can still revert to their old ways? I’m assuming its just that; that underneath the conscious self they havent bothered cleaning out some of their basement? And wouldn’t complete enlightenment be temporary as well … when that self (or rather non-self) is merged with all …
so would the conclusion be that a temporarily enlightened person is one operating from a place of consciousness while still having underneath uncompleted work?
Dimitri,
You could have a look at the website below and download the free pdf Clarity.
This could be an example of what you are talking about and an explanation of what might be happening.
http://www.nathangill.com/
Go to Download heading and select pdf.
hope this is helpful.
Dimitri,
you could ask Bob and Cameron if such a thing as an “enlightened person” exists?
Maybe that can clear things up a bit.
It seems to me that you operate under a lot of assumptions mainly:
– there is such a thing as an enlightened person
– there are old ways before and new ways “after” enlightenment
– your “self” is being merged with all during enlightenment
– you can clean up underneath your basement of consciousness to get “complete” enlightenment
Do you have any evidence for staying with your assumptions?
How about throwing them out of the window and starting fresh?
bye
Yes — Question all assumptions and expectations as to what you are, and what or who you’ll become in regards to “Enlightenment”
Tan has listed some great beginning pointers which should keep a seeker busy for years :), or tire them out once and for all.
There is NO ONE that will ever get THIS, or get better once the think they’ve attained something they believe or have been told is “Enlightenment”. Neti Neti…!!!!
Seeing
Being
Knowing
Hearing
Living
subject and object are non existent in the pure livingness that IS. So, where would a person be that can go into a basement to do anything….seriously look into this. Most importantly, realize who’s doing the looking, and what is looking out of your eyes at this moment…:) It’ll surprise you…!
–
yesterdays insight into true-nature or “Oneness” is today’s ego trip. stop at any experience and you have sold a diamond for the price of spinach
http://www.awake-now.org
A Poem to Sailor Bob
Tis funny to see me/you dance this way
To have this boundary drawn
On this arbitrary point in space/time called “Sailor Bob”
To hear this voice from down under
Translated over the silicon enabled web of cyber information
Strewn across this watery blue orb
Floating around an ordinary yellow sun
Oh, I know me/you exists “Sailor Bob”
For me/you has always existed
On billion times a billion blue and green and brown orbs
Floating around a billion times a billion ordinary suns
In a billion times a billion galaxies across the Kosmos
What are me/you “Sailor Bob”?
But the face we had before our parents were born
This pure Awareness
Infinite, vast, enternal, and One
It’s fun to carve out part and call the you part of me/you “Sailor Bob”
And the me part of me/you “Gates”
Pretending there are boundaries
Pretending it matters
Tis a game
A dance
A dream
Perhaps to hide from the lonliness or boredom
So we’ll play the game
You’ll be “Sailor Bob”
And I’ll be “Gates”
We’ll pretend “I” wrote this poem
Be we know me/you wrote it
For there is only
Just this. . .
Just Now. . .
Awareness
Gates,
You took the words out of my mouth. (kidding)
Enjoyed the poem.
Tan,
forgive some of the language I used. I often jump forth between different ways of describing enlighenment, wakefulness, or whatever its called, because theyre just words describing consciousness to me. I don’t actually have conceptions such as being merged with all, and all that other stuff. I just had the question of possibility pertaining to subconscious (out of unawareness) habits undermining one’s present awareness … which actually seems like a silly question to me now.
Does
anyone like
my
poem?