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The Advaita Show #36 – I WANNA MINGLE!!
U. G. Krishnamurti gives up the illusion
March 30, 2007The Advaita Show #37 – Bob's Shack 20 Mar 2007
May 4, 2007“I WANNA MINGLE!”
So sayeth James Brown in this clip which you should watch BEFORE you listen to this episode of the show because otherwise it won’t make much sense at all….
We don’t have any “Bob smack” for you yet, so you’ll have to put up with Steve and I rabbiting on about James Brown, Leonard Cohen, the Hsin Hsin Ming, and why Cameron thinks Advaitans are the most boring people on the planet.
Here’s the James Brown BMW commercial I talk about:
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54 Comments
The ‘Bob smack’ is top stuff but the CameronSteve cocktail is a pretty heady mix also.
But how did a guy who hates talking about non-duality end up having his own show about it????
Or did you not hate talking about it when you started the shows?
Still I’m not complaining as long as I get my fix. Thanks for another fun show.
Yes, I agree with Steve, we do need a third person in the ring to make this a great show. Someone who wants to get that there is no person to become no person. Someone that is sitting on the fence of nonduality and is truly honest and desperate to get this ‘No thing’. This, I believe, will benefit all. BTW, I’m out.
Cam and Steve,
Thanks for another advaitabation session.
I’m trying to figure out why someone would even try to figure this stuff out. Does it make you happier when you “get it”? I don’t believe it gets you laid.
Does it make you less messed up than when you started? As you mentioned in the show, you both agreed to not talk about eachother’s stuff. What are you guys agreeing to hide? I’d appreciate it if at least one of you guys could tell me how your life, and your relationships in particular, are better now than before. That is, of course, if you assert that you “get it” now.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the show and I appreciate what you’re doing. I’m just missing the point.
After another long debate with a friend about free will or no free will, I was reading the hsin hsin ming for the first time and the thought arose…
“Free will and no free will are concepts. I am beyond both.”
🙂
To clarify my above statement, I think the no free will concept is a good ‘doorway’ into this but I feel that to cling to it (like I have been doing) can be a mistake. It just seems to be another ‘thing’ to drop once it’s been picked up. I suppose it’s the using a concept to remove a concept idea, from the thorns analogy, you have to drop both concepts in the end.
Stig – i started the show to bring Bob to a bigger global audience. Not cuz I wanted to talk about it.
Carlos – what benefit does an actor get knowing the character he’s playing on stage is really just imaginary? Imagine Laurence Olivier had spent his entire life thinking he really WAS King Richard III and then one day realized Richard was only a character he was playing. He keeps playing him, knowing it’s just a play. How might he benefit?
Come find out.
Guys, Great Show. I have been wading through your podcasts getting more and more irritated. Like a strange addiction, I was getting more and more pissed off with you, but still loaded the next podcast, and the next one, and the next one. I thought you were a bunch of asinine, immature show-offs with deep seated psychological issues acting out in public as a form of show-off therapy,in the tradition of Ram Dass, Timothy Leary etc. Jeez, Leonard Cohen. he hasn’t topped himself yet? We did all that stuff in Psych 101, but that was ages ago. You guys are regressing to the level of Freshman students, back to focussing on getting laid or some sort of enlightened blissful experience. And that was just the professors.
No free will, yeah right. I am not real? Give me a break. Thoughts arise and pass away, so what? Even if it is all a dream, it feels real enough to hurt.
But today, some how in the middle of the show, everything suddenly was all right. I still think you are a bunch of asinine, immature show-offs that really need to let go and get a life. But its all right. it really is. There was no problem at all. i just thought there was.
I’m not into the no free-will thing, not that it really matters. It is with your consciousness you choose what thoughts to give energy to and which to ignore. The less me there is in things the better things are. The more we let go the closer we get to Truth. Beyond thought is wisdom, love and everything. These are formless, but none the less real.
Whether it is me who is doing the letting go, or a power greater than myself guiding me doesn’t matter.
Guess I will be banned from being an Advaitan. That is no problem at all.
Cam – Imagine instead that Olivier spent his life thinking he was King Richard III and everyone treated him as the King and he lived the life of royalty. Then a stranger comes along and says, “Hey, you’re really not the King. It’s all just a dream. Wake up.” And, at the same time, there are other strangers telling him that he’s an alien, a microbe, a peasant, a ball of energy, or even a king. All of these “religions” tell Olivier that they know the true answer. Let’s now assume that Olivier truly believes that each of these strangers will be able to present a convincing world-view supporting their thesis. Why would he want to listen to any of them if he was happy to begin with?
In other words, sometimes ignorance really is bliss. So, please tell me the benefit of elightenment. Are you happier now? Are your relationships better? Are Mr. Witt’s? Again, I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m really just curious.
I suspect that you really only should seek enlightenment if you’re not happy, because, why rock the boat otherwise.
Well Carlos, I think it breaks down like this – if you have any choice in the matter, stay dumb and happy! But I suspect, by the nature of the fact that you’re listening to this show, that you ain’t following the blissful ignorance path, are you? 🙂
I remember Balsekar once saying “if you have a choice between enlightenment and a million dollars, take the money!”
That said, I’m not sure there is any general rule about benefits. I can only say that from experience, life took on a very easy quality once I stopped thinking that “Cameron” was what I was. Once that belief dropped away, life has just seemed to happen. I’m pretty sure that was what going on BEFORE the belief dropped away as well, but it didn’t seem like it!
After the belief in Cameron disappeared, all sorts of “experiences” have happened. High highs, low lows, and everything in between. It’s a great ride. The only difference is that none of it is taken very seriously. The part of Cameron is still being played, usually with great gusto, but there’s a deep underlying acceptance that it’s just a dream. So let’s not get too caught up in it….
I don’t believe what I just did. First I ask why you did something and then I go on about no free will as if I know what I’m talking about. Still if there weren’t any confused characters like me there wouldn’t be any Bobs or Camerons either. It’s great how it all works out like that. It’s a wonderful jigsaw when I just look at it as a whole and stop thinking the piece I think I am is not yet in place.
Hey Mark! Welcome to the show. I’ve been pissed off about advaitans for 20 years, so get used to it. Fucking annoying bunch they are. You and I can just go hang out, have a beer, and make fun of the rest of them. ‘K?
So its like: Before enlightenment, drink beer, chase women. After enlightenment, drink beer, chase women? Suits me.
Oops. nearly forgot to mention, another Giant passed away recently, Kurt Vonnegut, while we are talking about under-graduate heroes. His novel “TimeQuake” dealt with the situation whereby everyone lost their free-will for a couple of years and then it suddenly returned. Right up your alley, I would have thought.
Sounds great! I’m embarrassed to admit I’ve never read any Vonnegut.
Just listened to the show. Great stuff.
I do think it’s probably unfair to characterize people posting comments to the blog as lifeless, boring, and obsessed with advaita. Okay, so I posted like 7 comments today. Just happens I spend a shitload of time online in my field of work. But I also strolled around Fisherman’s Wharf in San Francisco with my wife and daughter, had some great conversations with friends, and engaged in some weighty dialog about the future of the internet with folks at this conference I’m attending. Today was a nice day for the me-that-isn’t.
How was your day, Cameron? I promise not to tell you it doesn’t matter just cause you don’t exist.
I had a terrific day. Got to interview God. Not many times in your life THAT happens.
See:
http://gdayworld.thepodcastnetwork.com/2007/04/18/gday-world-228-brian-dalton-aka-mr-deity/
BTW, I love Fisherman’s Wharf! I spent a lot of time there late last year while I was in SF. Good cafes, free wi-fi, and, of course, AMAZING view. Wonderful little organic market there on the weekends as well.
Hey! Who is this new Mark –this imposter calling himself ME on these boards?
“I” have been here since the start, not “Mark”! (heh heh–talk about ego identification, eh?)
I guess now I’m forced to give myself a new name to save everyone confusion. Good thing a name is just a label, not the real me. Or is it? After all, if the new “Mark” starts spewing weird comments, “I” could get blamed, or banned from the Advaita Show!
Welcome aboard New Mark…
I LOVE the JAMES BROWN TALK! I bought his box set, “Star Time” and it’s brilliant from start to finish. Huge fan!
As for the new Advaita Show, love hearing you guys—and Cameron, just when I was about to scold you for acting so utterly uninterested in your own show (You’re like an evil Johnny Carson. Imagine if Johnny walked on stage and started bitching and moaning about doing his monologue instead of just doing his effing monologue!!) I began agreeing with your complaints about Advaitans. You nailed it. I always enjoy hearing you you funny bastard. But poor Steve–I think you knocked the wind out of his Advaitan sails. At least he was trying to stay on topic!! 🙂 Hang in there Steve, you’re great.
Love the show. GOOD GOD!
I was reading FilmInk magazine (may issue) last night when I stumbled across this interview with Jim Carrey (comedian/actor)
“I think everybody is looking for something that they already have. Everyone is looking for God and everyone IS God. So, the act of looking for God is a waste of time, but in a way you have to go through this process of looking so that at the end you might realise that you’re it. And everyone is it. There is no hole in anyone. I heard this expression that there is a ‘God shaped hole’ in people, and so you try to fill it up with drugs, and other things. Or you might try to fill it up with healthy things or bad things. But the fact is that there is no hole because everything is God, and god doesn’t make holes. It’s a fact that we’re already complete and it’s all about realising your already complete. Once you realise your complete, this life and everything in it becomes a form of play – something to toy with and play. And so you have nothing to worry about; you need to have fun with your life. Once your in that place, everything is possible.”
Can we get Jim Carrey on the show? I reckon he’d do it. Where else could he talk like that without getting looks of befuddlement.
The interviewer responds “Despite obviously being consumed by a barrage of complex and unorthodox thoughts, Carrey is a very happy man” Despite?!
Here’s another quote from Guru Jim
“If you have a thought in your head right now, you are not that thought. You are the one watching that thought”
Screw Bob, I wanna go to a Jim Carrey satsang.
Impressive quote! When I was watching “Dumb And Dumber” with my kids yesterday I had no idea I was watching an enlightened dumbass.
I’ll talk to his people, see if he’s available. 🙂
To the real Mark. So sorry to trample all over you. Very rude. I am happy to be Mar7k from now on. Its pronounced the same, the “7” is silent.
Here’s my position on the whole thing. (With a disclaimer that I don’t know what I’m talking about)
I find it all fairly facinating but I have no desire to ‘get it’ because there are all sorts of problems surrounding all this getting it.
Firstly I find that any attempt to ‘get it’ and then demonstrate your level of understanding to others only results in arguments or trips to asylums depending on who you’re talking to. I mean, most of you guys believe in this stuff and you still have shit slinging matches over it!
Secondly I enjoy having lively debates with people, disagreeing with stuff etc and if I was to do this in the knowledge that not only do I not exist but the person that I’m disagreeing with is a figment of the imagination of a person who doesn’t exist then it would do my head in and I would probably end up in an asylum.
Thirdly there really isn’t all that much to get. If life is a figment of the imagination then just go out there and enjoy it and stop worrying about it because who cares whether someone who doesn’t exist ‘gets it’. In fact who is there TO care. If life does exit then you’re all wasting your time worrying about a bunch of crazy talk. (Asylums are probably somehow involved here too).
I fully intend to simply live my life the way that the conciousness that I like to call ‘me’ wants and if I happen to become enlightened along the way then so be it. There’s no point in giving yourself a headache over it.
Do most people go out there and enjoy life?
It’s said here that life lives you. No one to go out there etc, but lets talk ‘non advaita’ talk Miriam. Most people are unhappy, and are too busy trying to look cool than be honest with themselves.
Have a quiet private conversation with someone and all of a sudden they open thier heart and your hit with all their problems. And you realise that people behave a certain way because of many factors, some seen, some unseen. But mostly, people run from the truth in their everyday lives, somehow. This is what most people call ‘living life’
I found that this stuff, at least for me, has always been about living an investigated life. Life is completaly unbound when seen through advaita understanding (not just in an advaitic way, but not caught up in your own bullshit either). Though I certainly don’t speak for everyone.
Getting caught up in the conceptual stuff, that you see here in the comment section, happens, so it is pointless to stress over why it happens. But, what is getting pointed to is very real.
Advaita doesn’t point to another concept, it tries to point to the non conceptual. Knowing this, you can see that by pointing to no thing (no thing is not a void or vacuum), you’ve already got a problem.
Any image, a bird, a hand, a car, person etc, any image is pointing to that non conceptual thing that you are. Whats the difference with the comments in here, and, say, a bird out there. The bird is limited to the bird, the words are limited by the words. In truth we are none of those limitations. We are unbound reality itself.
So, are these comments any more or less “life” than watching TV? or fucking? or throwing a midget off a cliff?
Ok, ok, so throwing a midget off a cliff sounds like fun times if I ever heard one, and fucking is pretty good too…. hmmm
Ahhh, fuck this comment section!… I’m off to climb a mountain and fuck a midget.
It just struck me that maybe the desire to talk about advaita stems from a desire to change something non-personal. In particular, maybe we desire to change the world around us…there’s this hope that maybe when we “get it” everyone else will be miraculously convinced and the whole world will “get it” someday and all the shit that’s wrong, like fundmentalist religion, violence, mass consumerism, television, whatever, will no longer be issues.
I think if one looks back at everyone’s posts, including one’s own, one finds an implicit desire to convince someone/everyone of “the truth”. And isn’t that the goal of The Advaita Show, too? See Cameron’s quote above re: the desire to disseminate Bob’s message. If there were no individuals to get it, then what’s the point?
Essentially, no one wants to be alone in the knowledge of the truth. Maybe this is the root of the buddhist sangha or Christ’s remark that where one or more are gathered, I [God] am there. It’s only through the recognition of the relationship between things that the truth is found.
Again this idea that there are no individuals misses the point. That’s like the actors getting on stage to perform Shakespeare and thinking “well these characters don’t really exist so let’s not bother”.
The play *is* the point.
Part of the problem as far as I can tell (again speaking as someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about) is that if you’re not ready to believe the Advaita stuff then you’ll just say this is a whole lot of nonsense and go about your business unaffected. If you’re ready to understand it then you get some level of benefit from it, everything is fine. However if you discover Advaita during a dark time in your life then you are at risk of believing it but not understanding it which can result in potentially dangerous nihilistic thinking. This is the reason why in Dzogchen (on which I’m on somewhat firmer ground) you can’t receive certain teachings until you are ready to understand them.
Advaita is no different Miriam. I’m holding back on the SUPER ADVANCED teachings until someone puts $5000 in my PayPal account. This shit is just the loss-leader.
and that, precisely demonstrates one of the potential dangers of philosophies/religions/anything else involving a guru that don’t require proof of lineage.
People have a tendency to cling to ‘gurus’ and whilst most are genuine some are just charismatic guys who want a quick buck.
Speaking of which Cam, given your charisma you could skip the sunnies, don some silly clothes and make a killing in the cult starting industry.
You don’t think the sunnies help? Cmon, even gurus need some coolness.
I’m not sure the sunnies lend the right kind of coolness…
Miriam, That’s interesting, last night when I read your post I was thinking you must be the first disciple of guru Cam.
lol which post was that?
The one that started with “Here’s my position on the whole thing. (With a disclaimer that I don’t know what I’m talking about)…”
It all just sounds very much like you and Cam share similar annoyances with Advaitans.
Looking for Oneness or trying to ‘Awaken’ is like looking for life or trying to live. Awakeness is all there is – it doesn’t extend into the future or into the past – it’s this livingness happening right now!
Trying to be with Oneness is Oneness appearing as ‘trying to be with Oneness’. Seeking, reading books, going to meetings etc. is awakeness presently appearing as such… It’s already being done!
It’s not that things don’t exist. It’s that they only ‘exist’ as this ever changing appearance arising right now…and now…and…
I see your point… and I guess that given my knowledge of advaita comes from this show a bit of casual reading and a fairly good understanding of Dzogchen (the buddhist version of advaita) my opinions would tend to be fairly coloured by the ones Cam has expressed.
That said, most of my annoyances stem from having a mother who is so busy having her finger in every religious and philosophical pie that she doesn’t understand a thing about the real world. Hence, my general opinion that its all very well understanding that our experiences are merely an illusion, but the world of our experiences is the one we have to live in so its worthwhile concentrating a little more on that one.
On another note, has anyone noticed that the comment section seems to be a competition to see who can use the most words to say nothing. There also seems to be bonus points for jargon and words in quotation marks.
When I wrote “If there were no individuals to get it, then what’s the point?” I meant that there *are* individuals to whom this philosophy can be shared. And certainly the act of sharing it is all part of the play.
What I find interesting is: amongst those of us conversing here, there is a desire to enact change through the sharing of a philosophy which essentially says there is no need to change because all is as it should be. I’m not saying there is no point in participating and trying to change things. I’m only commenting on what is apparently an odd dichotomy.
I noticed, Miriam. It’s not really jargon, but I’ll give you 1 bonus point for the use of the term Dzogchen, but I have to subtract a point for actually posting a comment that didn’t amount to nothing. Try harder to remove substance from your next post.
Rob, Joining the Tony Parsons camp are we. When I first heard his stuff it kind of pissed me off and for some reason made me feel anxious, but it’s growning on me. However, I find many of his ‘awakened’ students ( not meaning you, Rob ) to be of the group that thinks they’ve gotten it, but really don’t seem to have. But, of course, what do I know.
Miriam, I’d like to read up on Dzogchen, as my main reference to it is from Bob mentioning it on the show. Do you have any links to good resources online you can pass on?
Hi Corey,
I’m not one hundred percent with the Tony Parsons thing. A bit too much negativity towards other methods or teachers – after all if it’s all Oneness, it’s all what is – therefore it’s all ‘allowed’ (…including Tony’s criticisms :-)).
What Tony is good at, is deflating the ‘enlightenment myth’ that there is something to get that will make ‘you’ into a super being somehow impervious to real life.
BTW, the Dzogchen stuff is well worth checking out – it’s obvious that it has been an influence on Bob. Some books that I would recommend are: John Myrdhin Reynolds – Self Liberation through Naked Awareness and Namkhai Norbu – Dzogchen: The Self Perfected state. My favourite and one of the easiest to read is: You Are the Eyes of the World – by Longchenpa.
P.S. I ‘love’ “quotation marksâ€.
@miriam
“I find it all fairly facinating but I have no desire to ‘get it’ because there are all sorts of problems surrounding all this getting it.”
Instead you go get that new car? (for example) How is that any better?
“Firstly I find that any attempt to ‘get it’ and then demonstrate your level of understanding to others only results in arguments or trips to asylums depending on who you’re talking to. I mean, most of you guys believe in this stuff and you still have shit slinging matches over it!”
Yes, because it is believe. You can see who don’t play this game, they probably “get it”.
“Secondly I enjoy having lively debates with people, disagreeing with stuff etc and if I was to do this in the knowledge that not only do I not exist but the person that I’m disagreeing with is a figment of the imagination of a person who doesn’t exist then it would do my head in and I would probably end up in an asylum. ”
You don’t have to believe that you don’t exist, you just have to stop believing that you do!
“Thirdly there really isn’t all that much to get. If life is a figment of the imagination then just go out there and enjoy it and stop worrying about it because who cares whether someone who doesn’t exist ‘gets it’. In fact who is there TO care. If life does exit then you’re all wasting your time worrying about a bunch of crazy talk. (Asylums are probably somehow involved here too). ”
Right, but who can stop worrying when the idea “I am this body” is still there?
“I fully intend to simply live my life the way that the conciousness that I like to call ‘me’ wants and if I happen to become enlightened along the way then so be it. There’s no point in giving yourself a headache over it. ”
Pretty much like everyone else and it doesn’t seem to work out for most people, but maybe you are special!
I would recommend anything by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu for Dzogchen info. I have actually been to a couple of his retreats in Australia and know quite a few people who are very involved with his community. He is also one of the Dzogchen teachers who don’t consider it to be a religion so that slightly changes his approach to it.
You can buy all sorts of Dzogchen literature here: http://www.dzogchen.org.au/bookshop.html
and if you’re after some links to Dzogchen communities around the world they have some on the main website.
Cam,
Thanks for the James Brown YouTube clips they made my day 🙂
Always enjoy listening to you and Steve prattling on about nothin.
Here’s my two cents worth:
All chat about Advaita, Dzogchen etc is just that . . .CHAT!
All concepts. All Mind stuff.
Listen to Sailor Bob people . . . “FULL STOP”.
Or as he said to me eariler today, “nothing goes beyond NOTHING!”
LoveYaAll
now get a life 🙂 over and out.
Bob Seal
Bob has a good point. Also, I can understand Aussie slightly better than Pali, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, or Japanese. I can almost hear Bob most of the time. Anyway, this stuff is so simple you really don’t need to listen, or read anything, but it is fun to put-on, as if you don’t get it..like there is anything to get.. Have fun out there all you sons and daughters of a barren mother..per Mark West.. Thanks Bob.. and all you stuck upside down.
and the wheel turns
I must congratulate Cameron and Steven on a terrific new show, and the James Brown jokes had me in stitches. I must agree that there are various counter-arguments that can be made against Advaita, but nevertheless it can make a significant contribution to any serious search. I look forward to hearing more of these wonderful shows and reading the comments from these lovely people.
Loving regards
Daggett Horly
Watching The Wheels
People say I’m crazy doing what I’m doing
Well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin
When I say that I’m o.k. well they look at me kind of strange
Surely you’re not happy now you no longer play the game
People say I’m lazy dreaming my life away
Well they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me
When I tell them that I’m doing fine watching shadows on the wall
Don’t you miss the big time boy you’re no longer on the ball
I’m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go
Ah, people asking questions lost in confusion
Well I tell them there’s no problem, only solutions
Well they shake their heads and they look at me as if I’ve lost my mind
I tell them there’s no hurry
I’m just sitting here doing time
I’m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go
I just had to let it go
I just had to let it go
– John Lennon
Man, the advaita show can be like a serious fuck buddy relationship.
You hook up, you fuck, and you never speak to that person again. Untill you get the horn, then it’s all hardcore sweating, with lots of ‘yeah take that bitch… you like it hard don’t you, you little filthy slut…. ” then, you pull out, you orgasm… and, never speak to each other again.
I’ve been thinking about this show recently. I had a listen to the wanna mingle show again and have a few issues to sort out.
1. The demographics of this show are quite varied. It includes spiritual seekers, seekers, finders, angry frustrated twats(g)
2. Steve and Cam, though funny, just don’t have the patience to keep talking to those people that are in the spiritual seekers category and the seekers category (a spiritual seeker is someone who fell for the whole ‘enlightenment’ line, and a seeker is someone who had a crappy life or life event that made him ask questions)
3. Steve and Cam – who are you talking to? Can we define episodes for seekers, and finders?
4. How about two advaita shows, one for finders, the other for seekers. The finders advaita show could be about fucking, drugs, music, art, science, movies, family – you could interview people like Guy Smith etc and ask how Advaita understanding has coloured thier everyday lives, as apposed to talking about no thing. The seekers could be episodes where Steve and Cam interview a seeker, and anihilate them. But mixing the two, can be boring for some, and confusing for others (if I hear “whats wrong with right now” ever again I swear I’ll Hulk someones ass).
5. Cam, on the episode you talked about Bob and you getting bored with the same old questions. Surely that can’t be true for Bob, otherwise he’d stop giving talks, and go fishing or join a fight club (ok, maybe not a fight club).
6. Why can’t we come together? for reasons other than ‘look at my huge Advaita cock’ – Can fuck buddies become friends? Will it get weird if we do? Can you be friends with someone after you’ve shot a hot wad on thier face?
Alright, thats enough of my sweet sweet filth for now.
Marcelo. Marcelo.
Steve and I are talking to each other. Isn’t that obvious?
As for Bob, yeah it’s really true. He got bored, perhaps because it was me sitting on front of him every week asking the same old questions on your behalf. He said people coming to his house is different, it’s a stream of new people, maybe asking the same old questions, but asking them for the first time, genuinely looking for answers.
Clarified, thankyou…. although, I know that we are just listening in on your conversation, but, if your aware of us being there, then, doesn’t that also come into it?
You listen but do you hear?
You talk but do you communicate?
You write but do you wrong?
I knew I shouldn’t have clicked the mouse.
Man, I’m way too stoned to reply. Are you being deep and profound or is it a straight question? Are you saying that I’m not paying attention or is it a “if a tree falls” line.