The Advaita Show #48 – Bob's Joint Sept 2, 2008
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November 11, 2008
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You Are What You Is

Another entry in the “Most Advaita Rock Song” competition – I give you Frank Zappa.


  1. marcelo says:

    Several links in the “recommended reading” section don’t seem to work. Just a heads up!

  2. brando from holland says:

    this post says there is no ego, no self, no me, no you, and there is allso no changeless reality, stop that talk about that guys, this changing reality is all there is, keep it real 🙂
    and this post allso says that everybody is a part of what is. not two.


    another part of what is

  3. Stig says:

    Yay Frank! My fave is Baby Snakes.

    Here’s a couple of entries from me, one light and one heavy…

    Live – Call me a fool

    Alter Bridge – Come to life

    I hope that works. There are loads of Live songs I could of gone for but I couldn’t find them, besides that I didn’t want to clutter up the comments with them all. If you can try and find Flow and Love Shines. I have noticed that I tend to skip over the bits that don’t fit and cling to the bits that do, I guess that’s how I create my world *shrugs*

  4. Stig says:

    Hi Brando,

    I think, perhaps, you might be missing something. Try this quote from ‘The Niz’

    ‘You cannot be conscious of what does not change. All consciousness is consciousness of change. But the very perception of change – does it not necessitate a changeless background?’

    What do you think?

  5. “and this post allso says that everybody is a part of what is. not two. ”
    There are no parts in reality. There is no duality in non-duality !

    “no changeless reality, stop that talk about that guys, this changing reality is all ”
    changing reality is a contradictio in terminis, an oxymoron if you will. What is It that never changes? One essence appearing as Everything !

    lul niet uit je nek man 😉
    tom, Belgium

  6. tom says:

    As the ancients often times remind us:
    Whether we accept, reject, or live in ignorance of Goatonapole, we are all Goatonapolists:

    It is our hope that we all may someday be like the Goat on the Pole, serene and beautiful, in a state of absolute balance.

  7. tom says:

    Another entry in the “Most Advaita Song” competition

    Hello darkness, my old friend,
    I’ve come to talk with you again,
    Because a vision softly creeping,
    Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
    And the vision that was planted in my brain
    Still remains; it is a Goatonapole
    Within the sound of silence.
    In restless dreams I walked alone
    Narrow streets of cobblestone,
    ‘Neath the halo of a street lamp,
    I turned my collar to the cold and damp
    When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
    That split the night
    And touched the sound of silence.

    And in the naked light I saw a Goatonapole
    Ten thousand people, maybe more.
    People talking without speaking,
    People hearing without listening,
    People writing songs that voices never share
    And no one dared
    Disturb the sound of silence.

    “Fools” said I, “You do not know
    Silence like a cancer grows.
    Hear my words that I might teach you,
    Take my arms that I might reach you.”
    But my words like silent raindrops fell,
    And echoed
    In the wells of silence

    And the people bowed and prayed
    To the Goatonapole they made.
    And the sign flashed out its warning,
    In the words that it was forming.
    And the sign said, “Goatonapole.”
    And whisper’d in the sounds of silence

  8. Cameron says:

    All hail the goatonapole. But what is the pole standing on? Is it goatonapoles all the way down?

  9. tom says:

    If I’m not mistaking there are some naked female poledansers along the way 😉

  10. Cameron says:

    naked female GOAT poledancers?

  11. tom says:

    just getting your goat 😉

  12. barney says:

    A Bit predictable but How about ONE by U2.

  13. tomasz says:

    Another entry in the “Most Advaita Song” competition – I give you Gnarl Barkley

    Come on now, who do you, who do you, who do you, who do you think you are,
    Ha ha ha bless your soul
    You really think you’re in control??

    Lyrics to Crazy :
    I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my mind
    There was something so pleasant about that place.
    Even your emotions had an echo
    In so much space

    And when you’re out there
    Without care,
    Yeah, I was out of touch
    But it wasn’t because I didn’t know enough
    I just knew too much

    Does that make me crazy?
    Does that make me crazy?
    Does that make me crazy?
    Possibly [radio version]
    probably [album version]

    And I hope that you are having the time of your life
    But think twice, that’s my only advice

    Come on now, who do you, who do you, who do you, who do you think you are,
    Ha ha ha bless your soul
    You really think you’re in control

    Well, I think you’re crazy
    I think you’re crazy
    I think you’re crazy
    Just like me

    My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
    And all I remember is thinking, I want to be like them
    Ever since I was little, ever since I was little it looked like fun
    And it’s no coincidence I’ve come
    And I can die when I’m done

    Maybe I’m crazy
    Maybe you’re crazy
    Maybe we’re crazy

  14. tomasz says:

    Sorry it’s GnarlS Barkley.

    “I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my mind
    There was something so pleasant about that place.
    Even your emotions had an echo
    In so much space”

    That must seem crazy when It happens out of the blue, outside tradition.

  15. tomasz says:

    this too !

    “Going On
    I’ve seen it with my own eyes
    How we’re gettin’ otherwise
    Without the luxury of leavin ”

    With the perspective of infinity, we don’t get enmeshed in the mind with it’s complexities and falsehood. Leave this place through the door ….. I AM is that door.

  16. tomasz says:

    And this:

    “Im just being myself, plus I gotta be Me to, silly of me to bring, silly of me to think that I couldn’t bring myself to be you.
    Ah but behold there is benevolence, behind this but don’t stare though, …”

    The benevolence, remember American Beauty , the satchitananda…

    ” It was one of those days when it’s a minute away from snowing and there’s this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this bag was, like, dancing with me. Like a little kid begging me to play with it. For fifteen minutes. And that’s the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and… this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Video’s a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember… and I need to remember… Sometimes there’s so much beauty in the world I feel like I can’t take it, like my heart’s going to cave in. “

  17. tomasz says:

    “now its time to come out my friend, you thought
    oh I ll never see the light but you were wrong
    you just became the light”

    “So I bite my own self
    and I quiet down like stealth again”

  18. Bob Seal says:

    Oh and this . . . YUM, naked female GOAT poledancers!
    What flavour?

  19. guy says:

    Wich reminds me. Any good lyrics from “cunt flavoured lollipops” ?

  20. Bob Seal says:

    Have you listened to the concious tv interview with Dr Manjir Samanta-Laughton?
    She’s worth a listen. Be good to get her on the show.

    Her website:

  21. Stig says:

    Listening yet again to the Frank Zappa song and wondering about how I’ve tried in vain to better my body so that I do not even see it as it appears. Instead it is my minds veiw of a distorted and covered up body that in the end I shun it all together. I did once have a glimse of my uncensored body from a lovingcompasionate perspective and saw it clearly as it was but almost immeadiately the shocked thought arose how could this mess of a body be loved so completely and the love vanished and the distorted and blanked view of the body returned. I get the vague impression that the love is still there behind the thoughts but I do not see past them. But I realise that I have no way of doing anything about anything, it seems I just watch as this story of the mind trying to figure all this out runs itself. Little comfort is gained by that thought, but it is only the thought that seeks comfort and that goes round and round as calming thoughts arise in response to angry thoughts and vice versa. That seems to be where I get lost, in thoughts and away from the senses and away from that emptiness which is none the less all pervading yet only found in its absence (If that means anything).

  22. tomasz says:

    Hey stig,
    Forget all that will you.
    Have a cup of coffee at the ol’ URBAN GURU CAFE and face the music 😉 :


  23. tomasz says:

    Your body should not be of your concern.
    Where your body is , there your Mind isn’t.
    (Ask your body how it thinks about itself!; It’s Mute)
    Where your Mind is, there your (imagined) Body is.
    (What’s wrong with your body, If you don’t think about It. You need to work at It to make it wrong. Out of itself nothing is wrong)

    “You are thought’s guru.
    Why wait for thought to realize the self?
    You are the self.

    We have the cart before the horse –
    waiting for thought and the body
    to realize its true nature
    so we can rest!”

    – Pamela

  24. tomasz says:

    BTW; pamela wilson is DE-LI-CIOUS !!
    I’ve met her in Belgium
    I love her mmmmmh 😉

  25. Stig says:

    Thanks for that Tomasz! Sometimes all those thoughts seem so important and sometimes they don’t, oh well.

  26. tomasz says:

    Hey Stig,
    Yeah I know, that’s the way It goes.
    And you know, in your direct experience there’s no way you can separate your body from the Universe. Close your eyes and try to find It’s boundaries. Where does Beingness end? And where does It begin? Feel It! There’s no Limit to It. When you open your eyes Everything you see is your (true) Body. This is true Ecology. Save the Planet, Include Yourself 😉
    Warm regards,

  27. tomasz says:

    One sentence that Pamela Wilson said, really stuck with me :
    “Treat everything as the Buddha”
    This saying coming from the Ultimate perspective is very powerfull in showing you where you’re still hooked into believing you are a limited something. No compromise, Everything is THAT, no matter how It appears.
    If everything is the Buddha then War ends.
    As the Vogons used to say in “the Hichikers guide to the Galaxy”
    “Resistance is Useless” 😉

    So long and thanks for all the Fish !

  28. alex says:

    Nothing Is Real

    I can’t believe the shit
    I witness everyday
    Fucking with my mind
    Sometimes I wanna crawl way
    Sometimes I wanna beat the shit out of me
    The decisions I make
    Are strangling me

    I know now
    Nothing is real
    Just a work of fiction
    Made up in such a twisted sense
    Fuck it all

    You shout
    I break
    You fall
    I live
    My life
    Is lost
    My soul
    Is yours
    My pain
    Becomes anger
    Becomes rage
    Becomes hate
    And a distaste for you

    Nothing is real
    You’re just a work of my mind
    You’re not real
    I can’t heal again
    Until you leave my head (I HAVE NO HEAD!)

    When you leave
    I can sigh again
    I can die again
    Take my soul away
    Leave me just a shell
    Of something I once was
    You can take my shame
    You can take my (YOU CAN’T TAKE ME!)

  29. treadstone says:

    “..what you gotta lose, you come from nothing, you’re going back to nothing, what have you got to lose? Nawthing! Nothing will come from nothing – cheer up ya old bugger”

  30. tomasz says:

    Nice duality that appears in the matrix 😉

  31. Dan says:

    Stig, I’m not sure what it is you don’t like about your body, but usually it’s fat for people. Your fat loves you, and it’s serving as a shield to protect you from pain. Eventually, as the pain dissipates, you won’t need it and your body can easily and naturally improve. Until then, it’s doing you a wonderful service!

  32. Dan says:

    It’s interesting, this absolutism of “there is nothing.” It may be clear that there is only one thing, that is my experience too. It may be clear that we are the source beyond anything, but there is still the projection of relativity. Still the appearance of relativity. To ignore that is to ignore part of what is, and so is not, by definition, wholeness. Wholeness means it’s the whole thing. Infinity means there is no place that it is not contained. You can say nothing ever happened, and that would be very true, but it’s also true to say that life goes on as well, even though the feelings and relationships to it may be completely different to life than it used to be.

    Relativity on some level never happened, but on the level that it did happen, it’s still happening. And it’s happening because the the only one that ever is, which is me (or you, or us, depending on how you want to talk about it) wanted, wants, and is wanting this. Right now, just as it is, down to every last detail.

  33. tomasz says:

    Hi Dan,

    There is NO source beyond anything; It’s just THIS: emptiness as fullness, fullness as emptiness.
    The projection of relativity is ALSO THAT appearing ‘within’ that’ as WHAT IS.
    WHO is IT that IGNORES THAT?
    THAT means the feelings and relationships are free to be whatever they ARE.


    There are NO LEVELS to THIS!
    WANTING implies a LACK; NOTHING is LACKING in THIS. ‘We’ fall together with ‘WHAT IS’; “It’s All Well”

    Don’t be afraid of the ABSOLUTENESS that there’s NO DUALITY in NON-DUALITY.
    Such is LIFE, NO MATTER what you want to read in to these WORDS 😉

  34. tomasz says:


    The Changefull has no independent existence. Ask yourself, What is it that never changes?
    Changes are perceived against that what never changes. You’ll find It’s closer than your breath.
    The Changefull has no independent existence; So it cannot be said to truly exist. What truly exists is THAT what NEVER changes.
    The changefull only exists as a seeming pattern in the NO-THINGNESS (indescribable) that you ARE that’s WHAT IS.
    It seems to be a paradox: Nothing ever happened and yet there is a continual happening because it’s seen that there is ONLY THAT, the NO-THINGNESS appearing as this and that.

    “It is not true that life is one damn thing after another…It’s one damn thing over and over.”
    — Edna Saint Vincent Millay

    Saying flatout “there is nothing” is just blatantly missing the mark; Which is the true meaning of ‘to sin’. And we all know that:
    “All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost” 😉

  35. tomasz says:

    Oh, and as for INFINITY….

    “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former. ” Albert Einstein US (German-born) physicist (1879 – 1955)

    So don’t worry if you find that the MIND ridicules THIS 🙂

  36. davidm says:

    “Dancing Through Life”
    (feat. Norbert Leo Butz, Kristin Chenoweth, Christoper Fitzgerald, Michelle Federer)

    The trouble with schools is
    They always try to teach the wrong lesson
    Believe me, I’ve been kicked out
    Of enough of them to know
    They want you to become less callow
    Less shallow
    But I say: why invite stress in?
    Stop studying strife
    And learn to live “the unexamined life”…

    Dancing through life
    Skimming the surface
    Gliding where turf is smooth
    Life’s more painless
    For the brainless
    Why think too hard?
    When it’s so soothing
    Dancing through life
    No need to tough it
    When you can sluff it off as I do
    Nothing matters
    But knowing nothing matters
    It’s just life
    So keep dancing through…

    Dancing through life
    Swaying and sweeping
    And always keeping cool
    Life is faught less
    When you’re thoughtless
    Those who don’t try
    Never look foolish
    Dancing through life
    Mindless and careless
    Make sure you’re where less
    Trouble is rife
    Woes are fleeting
    Blows are glancing
    When you’re dancing
    Through life…
    So-what’s the most swankified place in town?

    That would be the Ozdust Ballroom.

    Sounds perfect.
    Let’s go down to the Ozdust Ballroom
    We’ll meet there later tonight
    We can dance till it’s light
    Find the prettiest girl…
    Give her a whirl
    Right on down to the Ozdust Ballroom
    Come on
    Follow me
    You’ll be happy to be there…

    Dancing Through Life
    Down at the Ozdust…

    If only because dust
    Is what we come to

    Nothing matters
    But knowing nothing matters
    It’s just life…

    So keep dancing through…

    Miss GLINDA, I hope you’ll save at least one dance for me. I’ll be right here. Waiting. All night.

    Oh-that’s so kind. But you know what would be even kinder?
    See that tragic’ly beautiful girl
    The one in the chair
    It seems so unfair
    We should go on a spree
    And not she
    I know someone would be my hero
    If that someone were
    To go invite her…

    Well maybe, I could invite her?

    Oh, Bick, really?
    You would do that for me?

    I would do anything for you Miss GLINDA.


    So I’ll be picking you up around eight?

    After all-
    Now that we’ve met one another

    [Glinda & Fiyero]
    It’s clear we deserve each other

    You’re perfect…

    You’re perfect…

    [Glinda & Fiyero]
    So we’re perfect together
    Born to be forever…
    Dancing Through Life…

    Oh, Elphaba-Isn’t it wonderful?
    Fin’lly for this one night
    I’m about to have a fun night
    With this Munchkin boy
    Glinda found for me
    And I only wish there were
    Something I could do for her
    To repay her
    Elphaba, see
    We deserve each other
    And Glinda helped it come true
    We deserve each other
    Me and Boq –
    please, Elphaba, try to understand.

    I do…
    Glinda, listen. Nessa and I were talking about you just now.

    And I was just talking about you. I thought you might want to wear this hat to the party tonight!
    It’s really-uh-sharp
    Don’t you think?
    You know black is this year’s pink
    You deserve each other
    This hat and you
    You’re both so smart
    You deserve each other
    So here
    Out of the goodness of my heart

    Listen, Nessa


    Uh, Nessa.
    I’ve got something to confess, a
    Reason why, well-
    Why I asked you here tonight
    Now I know it isn’t fair…

    Oh, Boq. I know why.

    You do?

    It’s because I’m in this chair
    And you felt sorry for me
    Well isn’t that right?

    No! no! It’s because..uh..because…
    Because you are so beautiful

    Oh, Boq! I think you’re wonderful!
    And we deserve each other
    Don’t you see, this is our chance?
    We deserve each other
    Don’t we, Boq?

    You know what?
    Let’s dance!


    Let’s Dance!

    Dancing Through Life
    Down at the Ozdust
    If only because dust
    Is what we come to
    And the strange thing:
    You’re life could end up changing
    While you’re dancing

  37. tomasz says:

    LIFE is NO-THING happening.
    It’s a paradox …

  38. davidm says:

    Imagine a higher-than- 1080p-HD-3D movie that lasts your entire lifetime and you are an unwitting actor in it. Now imagine that the movie is everything you see/feel/hear/touch/perceive. You may feel you are in control and that you are separate from the rest of the movie, yet you are just a part and the entire movie, having already been “made” is just showing as it always was, as it always will be and whether the actors in it think they are self aware or not or think they can change the “ending” it does not matter.

    No thing can change. No thing can be separated from this movie. This is the universe and the very fabric of every part is so intertwined that it cannot be separated from any other part. You think you are outside of this movie, this universe but you are not. There is no YOU, there is only the universe that you are inextricably intertwined with. Don’t fight it, just accept that everything is as it always was, as it always will be.

  39. Dan says:

    Tomasz and Davidm:

    I am with you both 100%. I could not possibly agree more. What is Is. There is no two, no separation.
    The Relative, of course, cannot exist as separate. It’s a projection. And what is needs nothing, lacks nothing, and as nothing is openness itself.

    That said, IF there were a world of boundaries (and of course there isn’t – but let’s pretend), then there appears to be differences (although there are not, and they are not separate). If that illusory projection exists, then there is an individual. The individual in the projection/story still wants things. And the allowing to want IS the fulfillment (as is the process to get the fulfillment, and the getting of the fulfillment).

    For me, the more and more the individual inside the story sinks into the Absoluteness, the more safety, openness and joy is had by the individual. As What Is – all is well. It’s all inherently satisfying, or that it’s all just a story, but it really appears to be a story, and a story that nothingness (as me) wants to read right now. Thus, the wants of the individual ARE important within the context of the story, and only within the context of the story. If there truly was no desire for the story on any level, then there would be no experience except that Absolute, which is there all the time as the source and fabric of all.

    Do you see what I’m saying?

  40. davidm says:

    Dan I am not completely following. In essense, the story is already finished. Anything that you or anyone will do in their life already has been done. The earth has already either been engulfed in a conflagration as our Sun supernovas or has become a frozen ball in space as our Sun dies. You have already contracted cancer and died or won the lottery or whatever it is that is destined to happen to you in your life.

    Some people will argue that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle and Quantum Mechanics form the basis for the argument that there is, indeed, free will. They are mistaken–Heisenberg merely stands for the concept that we cannot measure things, not that things do not have a measure.

    Everything that will be already was. We are all like actors on the state of the universe. But this analogy is misleading–we often think of actors has having some degree of free will. Even the epiphanous moment when you realize the truth of this is just part of the “script.” Recognize that from one moment to the next, everything has been determined, we are just seeing the dominoes falling pushing other dominoes and so on. When you extrapolate this, you begin to understand the “movie.”

    True enlightenment does not actually change anything, it merely brings a deep peace. And you cannot change destiny–either you will understand this or not. As we watch the movie we find out what happens but we cannot change the ending.

  41. Steven Witt says:

    “If there truly was no desire for the story on any level, then there would be no experience except that Absolute, which is there all the time as the source and fabric of all.” DAN

    “Freedom from all desire is eternity. All attachment implies fear, for all things are transient. And fear makes one a slave. This freedom from attachment does not come with practice; it is natural, when one knows one’s true being. Self-knowledge is detachment. All craving is due to a sense of insufficiency. When you know that you lack nothing, that all there is, is you and yours, desire ceases”

    Good on you Danny boy, and good on all you, Tomasz and Davidm, all you alls. Why don’t you guys organize a show?

    Mad Matriarch: Check out page 92 in the R. Maharshi’s book. Perfect.


  42. Dan says:

    What the Niz is saying is equally true: what is being talked about, though, is freedom from ATTACHMENT to desire, not an end to desires. The ability to desire is a great joy, but only when fulfillment does not depend on desire. Then there is fulfillment before, in between, and after. It may be that desires are effectively fulfilled, but there are still preferences. And I think that’s wonderful to be able to have preferences.

    It’s true that Enlightenment has nothing to do with the individual, but can certainly have some effect on the individual, it’s affecting the hell out of my individual. As the nothingness, the flow of life, I am finally in a position to fulfill all the individual’s desires. Of course it’s the individual that’s recognizing it, but the individual can now feel safe enough to look at all of the previously-considered-unsafe fears and blocks. This is all from a relative perspective, all within the Is-ness. The fundamental truth is that there’s no Relativity. I get that, that’s in the forefront for me. But also, there’s this interesting “movie” or “projection” or “story”. It’s in the background, but it’s definately there, just in a different way that it used to be. It’s like I’ll never mistake the ink drawing of a boy for a real boy again, but it really is an ink drawing, and it really looks a lot like a boy, even though it’s the mind that determines that, and it’s really just a combination of lines.

    The fullness is here containing past, present, and future, all time/space, all planes of existence, etc.. Still, the appearance of the individual still has the appearance of the individual’s reality, that focuses on a specific time and place, a specific plane of existence. i.e nothing is lost. If someone says your name, you, the individual, look up. Sure you know that you are really just wholeness everywhere, but the projection continues.

    The story may be over in some sense, but in another sense, the story is never over. The complete Isness that was realized was always there. The fundamental lack of reality in a projection was always that way. What interests me now, is the projection itself, and how this infinity expresses itself as the finite.

    I, as an individual, certainly don’t know how it;s going to play out. Do you know? There’s this unfolding bit by bit so that we can enjoy it as a story. We, the Nothingness, are sitting on our proverbial bed, reading this proverbial book as a story. We chose this remember?
    We can stop when we want, and the story really will be over and there will be just absolute, which is awesome. But until then, the story, which is incredibly awesome, continues. But the relationship to the story is completely different. Free will is real, but free will is a feeling. Nothing more.

  43. Steven Witt says:

    “Words can bring you only up to their own limit; to go beyond, you must abandon them. Remain as the silent witness only.”

    Mr. Niz

  44. made_of_clay says:


    Your reference to Heisenberg, who essentially stated that a particle’s velocity and location cannot simultaneously be known, got me thinking… As with particles, isn’t it true that we cannot know everyone’s perspective on nonduality, and isn’t each perspective, like a particle, a thing in itself? Is there such a thing as “one nonduality” or are we living in a sea of infinite nondualities that cannot all simultaneously be known or knowable? Isn’t each of of living in our own unique realization (or, “movie”) and isn’t that the essence of “apartness”? I cannot watch your movie; you cannot watch mine.


  45. davidm says:

    maid of clay: i think you might be drowning in your “sea of nondualities”. we don’t truly “know” anything. the essence of being is just that–you do not need to look any further. your “movie” my “movie” are just metaphors. there is no “movie”. there just is “is”. knowledge or lack of it does not change the nature of the universe which does not care whether a hummingbird sips nector or is grilled by daniel. the question is not “to be or not to be” because the universe just is. full stop. period.

    still, speaking of movies. is there something about your movie that might particularly interest me?

  46. made_of_clay says:

    Well, davidm, I would certainly prefer drowning in nonduality to choking on a charred hummingbird! As for my movie, think of it as Sailor Bob Goes to Washington–I dabble in politics but don’t let it go to my head since I don’t have one…

  47. davidm says:

    made: now you’re talkin! do you think that the alaska bird will be smoked or grilled tonight?

  48. Cameron says:

    ROFL made of clay, “infinite nondualities”!

  49. Stig says:

    Hi Dan, you are right fat is one of the things I don’t like about my body. Any idea how this rash is doing me a service?

    I’m quite depressed today, I see what you mean by the movie. It seems to end all hope for the characters as there is nothing that can be done to get out of it. I see no way for the individual to sink into the absolute (which it already is), to me this character will never be free and although I am not the character there is a sort of compassion that feels for the indavidual and its atempts to bring an end to suffering or as it wallows in despair at the pointlessness of all that happens. I pray for the light to burn through the film and put an end to the misery that this story inflicts on the nobodies it pretends to be, and I realise how ridiculous that is. The joy of the story is matched only by the horror foisted upon the characters and for what? The fun of the story? If this story is what’s wanted then we are all screwed!

    AAARGH! This rant is really pissing me off! The despair of the mind playing out infront of me I feel like I’m stuck in that chair from ‘A Clockwork Orange’ with all the hate of the world being played out before me to a soundtrack that I love and with no way to close my eyes or ears. Shit.

  50. Stig says:

    Exaggerate much!

    Perhaps this is a story that’s wanted, pah.

  51. Dan says:

    Hey Stig,

    I recommend finding the truth. It’s not worth anything at all if we are completely connected unless that’s the experience. I recommend expecting that we might not be completely connected and really go find the truth for yourself. If we’re not, it’s good to know and you can stop suffering over a pipe dream. If we are, then you can feel it for real, and that’s an end to suffering. Either way, the truth will free you, so let’s not assume that we’re all connected and that you’re not an individual. You can tell a starving man he has food, and it may be true, but until he’s eating it really doesn’t matter. So, you may say “I shouldn’t be suffering, I know better.” Who cares if you know better? Better to pay attention to the pain. Allow it really be there, until it’s so constant and intense that you feel like it could go on forever. And then allow it to be there until that’s okay with you for real, and then it will release. That is all that’s needed.

    The rash and extreme emotional pain are the body trying to release something big. That is a very good sign. Many huge issues we only release because we have to. I know that was the case many many times for me. I only released because the pain got so intense that I didn’t have a choice.

    You do know that there’s something freer out there, and it’s important to go for it. A strong desire and willingness to let go of as much as you possibly can are all that are needed. Now the ball is in your court and the choice is up to you. You don’t need to suffer, even if you have to go through hell to end it.
    As they say, if you’re going through hell, keep going.

  52. Dan says:

    Hey DavidM,

    I am not, and I cannot, suggest that anything in the Relative could possibly be separate from me. There is no Relative existence except for me. That is clear. Mr. Niz is right that it’s impossible to encapsulate in words. Still, words are great pointers.

    Anyway, I am pretending here. I am pretending there is a separate reality for the sake of creating a story, an appreciation. And when I suggest this, you know what I’m talking about, even if you decide not to agree. It’s all fine and good to say, it’s ALL nothing, because it’s all Nothingness. That’s true, but somehow there’s a drive for more. It doesn’t even mean that I’m unfulfilled. And I’m noticing that that drive for it seems to have a wonderful place in life. This isn’t about changing destiny. This IS destiny. The complete fulfillment of the individual, no matter what is the drive. It’s too late, it’s over. It cannot matter anymore, but the pretending of an individual leads to a person who thinks it matters, and I’m enjoying opening myself to all parts of myself, the whole dream, as a dream character. This is hard to talk about, but perhaps you can make that initial understanding of “appearance of separation” to see that there is some form of individual functionality, it’s just been rendered moot by the Wholeness in the forefront.

  53. MadMama says:

    Hey, Great Stuff guys!

    Steve, Thanks for suggesting Page 92!

    “The body itself is a mere projection of the mind and the mind is but a poor reflection of the radiant Heart”

    I sure would like to have a clearer understanding of that statement!

    Sometimes I think I need to sit face to face with Bob to really see the obvious. Then again, it’s farming season and my hubby would would say…


  54. god says:

    it’s me. how are you all?

  55. tomasz says:

    Hi dog,

    “They worship Me, not associating anything with Me. “(Qur’an, 24:55) …

    The Infinite ‘God’ is not separate from All.
    ‘All’ is not located somewhere communicating with something outside Everything.

  56. tomasz says:

    You presume others to be other than Allah. There is nothing
    other than He, but you do not know this. While you are
    looking at Him you do not recognize Him. When the secret
    opens to you, you will know that you are none other than He.
    Then you will also know that you are the one whom He
    wished, and that you are forever and will not disappear with
    time, for there is no passing of time. Your attributes are His.
    Without doubt, your appearance is His appearance.

    more at:

  57. tomasz says:

    Hi clay maiden,

    “Infinite nondualities” implies an infinite number of distinct somethings. Therefore where one begins the other must end. Which means they are finite.
    This is however an erroneous interpretation of In-finity; Wich actually means ‘that which has no begining nor end’. Concious Aliveness has no form so it cannot be contained and measured. Infinity contains everything and since Infinity never stops being Infinite the apparently Finite is also included.
    In what would “infinite somethings” be appearing in?
    Ofcourse the five senses and the mind are limited!

    “Yet regardless of whether one were to just sit the body in a room-or somehow experience “infinite non-dualities”- none of that experience could ever appear to be greater than, or beyond, Infinite Conciousness, Awareness.”

    “The One Boundless Consciousness is permanently all Presence, eternally the only “where” there is.”
    “Awareness never fails to be boundless”

  58. tomasz says:

    What Life can there exist without Awareness.
    It’s the ‘conditio sine qua non’
    Life is formless, effortless.
    Wich is as the Buddha said
    What ‘I Am’ is.
    The rest is, drawing circles on a flowing river.

  59. tomasz says:

    Hi DavidM,

    What you say reminds me of Douglas Harding when he says that (paraphrasing) ; the personality is for putting out not for putting down. The latter is an often occuring misinterpretation amongst -ugh- ‘spiritual’ people. With the realisation that you’re not the personality chances are you’ll give a better performance.

  60. tomasz says:

    When you know that you lack nothing, then It’s time to play 😉

  61. tomasz says:

    Hi MadaMned,

    You say: “sure would like to have a clearer understanding of that statement!”

    From Sailor Bob:
    “Ofcourse taht I-thought comes up, that’s seeminhgly closely aligned to It. And seemingly close to It, we believe we are that I … you know that’s been translated

  62. tomasz says:

    … the piece of iron in the fire has seemingly taken up the quality of the fire. It’s got red and pick it up it can burn, the mind seemingly … the mental image we got of ourselves , the physical mental image seemingly doing these things out of itself. And we say : this is what I am , I can choose I can do what I will , I can do all of these things.
    BUT TAKE THAT PIECE OF IRON OUT OF THE FIRE IT CAN’T DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS. Tak this alive essence this wakefullness out of the body and see how many things it can do If it’s not animated by that Life -essence. That falls apart, falls back into the emptiness itself. Nothing is lost however. The pattern breaks down. Nothing is born, nothing can die. It’s all the same intelligence energy.

  63. tomasz says:

    “Does Exist, Cannot be expressed”

    (Now stop this monologue and get a life ! You lazy good for nothing Life-essence that I AM 😉

  64. brando from holland says:

    Stig Says:

    September 18th, 2008 at 2:07 am
    Hi Brando,

    I think, perhaps, you might be missing something. Try this quote from ‘The Niz’

    ‘You cannot be conscious of what does not change. All consciousness is consciousness of change. But the very perception of change – does it not necessitate a changeless background?’

    What do you think?
    //end of quote

    hi, i had a paddotrip (mushroomtrip) with friends one day a few years back and literally everything was moving. there was no changeless background. it was one big mass movement.
    it was too heavy so i never did it again, mushrooms. i had purchased the strongest visual mushrooms availible at that time in a shop in amsterdam. too brave.
    everything here is in fact changing scientifically speaking, even though i do not perceive the wall changing in my daily experience.
    from my own thinking i defined movement as a change of position.

    i question i have for nonduality readers is can anybody be sure of that nothing is appearing as everything?
    in my experience things are certainly not nothing. even though their root source may be nothing, as things are appearing they are things. not nothing, in appearance.
    so the appearance does really exist. only, ultimately what is comes from nothing.
    but what is is not nothing in actuality. and if some teachers say everything that ever is appears and disappears in one instant, from what point of view is that? i don’t have that experience. that’s just a story to make things easier, or less true?
    i don’t know if the source is the fabric. i think that is a very short route in trying to understand what is. too short, not true enough. empty space that is really devoid of any content is not atoms right? who can prove that what i am saying is false?
    i think that the absolute nothing wich is so intelligently capable to invent life itself is not that life itself but holds it in it’s arms as a loving parent. where is the seperation in that?

  65. made_of_clay says:

    Tomasz, it looks like you have a lot to say–maybe you need to do a show with Cam and Steve!

  66. tomasz says:

    Hi , Brando, Atoms do not exist separate from the energy that’s animating them, the stars, galaxies and YOU. It’s lovingly playing out like that.

    maid_of_clay: No, man don’t say that, I’m not worthy. But let them speak and I will be enjoyed.

  67. tomasz says:

    .. or better, amused.

  68. Dan says:


    In space you can be moving, but it does not feel like it until you pass something that’s staying more still than you. All motion is in reference to non-motion, and visa versa. Think about it. We say a tree is not moving, relative to us, but it’s whizzing through solar system at the same speed as the earth – it’s just that we are too, so it appears still to us. From outside the solar system, the tree may be seen to be moving incredibly fast.

    Nothingness is simply another concept that it used to point to the source of the mind, That which is aware. If your mind stops, even for just a second, you will still be there. You are not your mind.

    The following of that leads to a infinite “place” inside. This brings limitlessness and peace. For me, there was the realization that that same limitlessness was going on outside as well but only APPEARING limited. Thus, all is made of limitlessness, of Nothingness (of course it’s not Nothing either, but it’s certainly not anything at all).

    The source of the fabric is based on clear experience of the connection and sameness between that infiniteness inside, which I am connected to and everything else, which begins to be perceived as infinite and connected. Quantum physics backs this up as well. Everything is merely a projection of solidity. A mere probability contained within our own awareness.

  69. tomasz says:

    In the Seeing / Where Are You Truly Looking From? / you re-cognize THAT wich is from everything the most familiar. Look around, do you see a someone Seeing? This You-ness, this sameness that you see reflected everywhere is in and of the Mirror of non-conceptual Awareness. You Know yourself as I AM THAT. “The 2 are not served up separately”-D.H.
    ‘Atoms’ apparently exist, at a certain level from a certain perspective. It’s the distance that makes them. If you get up closer they vanish all together. Like a Mirage or the Blueness of water. How would an Atom see an Atom? From what distance would you finally be seeing Reality?: 0

  70. tomasz says:

    Don’t Imagine the Universe to be so brittle as to exist out of Atoms.
    There’s a sense of Wholeness to It, that’s So familiar we’ve gotten in to the habit of calling it ‘me’. Only ‘trouble’ is, there’s nothing that’s not included 🙂

  71. davidm says:

    Brando, motion is more than simply relative. Motion is an artificial construct, a perspective, so to speak, of how we experience the universe. Since everything, even time, exists in all states (“at once”) everything that will be already has been. Nothing is not predetermined. People often confuse movement with change when nothing changes because everything just is–it is just that people are not capable of experiencing everything all at once and we just move infinitesimal frame by infinitesimal frame infinitely quickly through our tiny corner of what is.

  72. MadMama says:

    Thanks for the link Tomasz! Bob gets right to the point.

    This might sound like a crazy question but I’ve been reading about people who have taken DMT and had non dual experiences. That kinda of freaks me out. Have any of you guys taken anything like that? I don’t mean to pry but it kinda bothers me since I’m just a little (almost) grandma and that’s the last thing I’m gonna do. I heard Ram Dass say he did LSD earlier in his life and it helped him understand non duality.
    What’s up with that? Any comment on the subject would be appreciated!

    It would be something if…. …..all you guys were doing mind altering drugs and I’m the last to know! Ha!

  73. tomasz says:

    I pleadguilty, MadMatriarch, (actually It’s not ‘my’ fault it’s my firmly established ego that’s to blame;-) .

    I’ll give you the link to my favourite non-dual potion, In case you want to experience the unborn after a hard day’s work:
    Or better give It to your ‘hubby’ and he’ll forget all about the farming season and you can escape to see Bob 😉

  74. Stig says:

    Hi Brando,

    One way to think of the changeless is to consider space, things move and change in space yet space doesn’t move or change and if there were no space then there would be nowhere for things to appear. Find the space within and see that all change appears in it.

    As for nothing appearing as everything I think the difficulty lies in the word nothing. Often it is written as no-thing, to me this means ‘not a thing’ and so it is this ‘not a thing’ that appears as all things. It’s another way of pointing to the Oneness of everything.

    The point of view of one instant is now. Everything that ever is appears and disappears now. There is no past or future where things appear and disappear those ideas are just thoughts that appear and disappear now. As Bob says ‘When does now begin and when does it end?’

    I’m not sure what your getting at with the source and fabric thing so I’ll skip that bit.

    I think the seperation in your last paragraph is where the parent stops and the child begins. I see it more like the cells of the body. The cells make the body but do the cells care about the body? Aren’t they just doing what they do naturally and the result is the body. Perhaps it’s in the nature of the absolute to appear as the particular.

    As an aside my first experience with mushrooms was after I’d had a really good night out and I had returned to an empty house. Not wanting the night to end I took a small handfull of mushrooms that my brother had picked earlier in the day. I remember just sitting alone and realiseing that everything in the room loved me, from the table to the posters on the walls. I just sat there for I don’t know how long with a big cheesy grin on my face loving everything back. I never looked for or had that experience again but I did take mushrooms a few more times with friends and had a laugh. I didn’t think the mushrooms were the only cause of the loving experience so I didn’t expect them to give it to me again. I think taking drugs to try and get non-dual experiences is the same trap as meditating or following any other practice to try and get it. It’s a denial that this is it already.

  75. tomasz says:

    That what comes and goes, ‘non-dual drug experiences’, is not IT.

  76. tomasz says:

    Sometimes just not taking the prescribed anti-psychotic drugs might do the trick 😉

  77. davidm says:

    MadM: don’t be freaked out! Remember, since before you were born, your neural pathways have been being formed in conformance with the part of the One-ness that you can perceive. It is the primary reason why you think there is a separate and distinct “you.” Psychotropic pharmaceuticals are simply a shortcut through the haze of the illusion of a distinct world–it is like a massive rapid, but, alas, ephemeral, reprogramming of your brain to truly experience the One-ness of what Is. While I believe DMT to be far more effective, if you are a newbie, you should probably start with pot and work your way up to LSD. When you are ready to really rock we should get together to really experience our One-ness. Does anyone have any differing opinions on this topic?

    The above-express opinion is that of the author and not of this website and the author never advocates engaging in any illegal activity.

  78. made_of_clay says:

    I don’t believe in the use of mind-altering drugs to achieve one-ness, davidm(t). I think it’s part of our growth as human beings to work hard to get to this understanding without them–it may be that the ultimate experiences are quite similar, but if drugs like DMT make it so easy, then where’s the satisfaction in that?

    That said, it sounds to me like several posters to this site are tripping! (but in a good way!) 😉

  79. davidm says:

    maid (in the shade): it’s not about growing, it’s not about achieving, it’s not about satisfaction … it’s just about what IS! You might want to take a crack at this before you discard it. Whether you experience it easily, after a protracted inner battle or never, does not really matter. What is IS. Full Stop. Period.

  80. MadMama says:

    Thanks for all your replies!! Do I understand this correctly:

    Tomasz, Your non dual potion is a special beer created by a cult? (you make me laugh!)

    Stig, You ate mushrooms and understood everything loved you!

    David, You think I should start with pot and end up with LSD!

    Made of clay, You don’t believe in mind altering drugs, it is better to work hard to get the understanding!

    Now I’m wondering if all those Gurus like Ramana, Niz, Bob, etc… awoke to non-duality through a potion????
    What about Cameron and Steve?

  81. tomasz says:

    Howdie ‘Junkies’,

    You should really read ‘perfect brilliant stillness’ from David Carse (with a forword from Tony Parsons, another junkie;-)

    He describes an awesome experience with some kind of peyote while being in the Jungle visiting some Indian tribe. For him if I’m not mistaken It was some sort of precursor to the full Blown realisation, that’s always right here Now.

    But It’s also a very good ‘advaita’ book that’s a joy to read. With much references to the Niz and other ‘famous’ ‘advaitists’. Highly recomended !

    Anyway, My advice concerning drugs ?: “Everything is valid in the appearance” !
    Now back to my opium pipe for a shot of Satchitananda !:-)

    PS: if you use psychotropics to enhance your experience the active ingredient will increase/decrease some neurotransmitters. Because these transmitting/receiving cells get accustomed, you will have changed your brain. Stop taking the drugs will leave the brain in an even lower state of commuication because it was accostumed to the drugs for fullfilling that function.

  82. Stig says:

    Hi MadMamma,

    I wouldn’t say taking mushrooms gave me any understanding, they just gave me the experience of everything loving me. It was all back to normal in the morning. I didn’t even know anything about non-duality until many years later and I don’t think my experience has anything to do with that. It was nice while it lasted but I didn’t miss it or try and recapture it, it was just something that happened.

  83. tomasz says:

    Yes, and It actually happened in non-duality !

  84. tomasz says:

    Nebraska State Senator Sues God Over Natural Disasters,2933,297121,00.html.

    Apparently Senator Ernie Chambers lost the case because according to the judge “God has no adres and cannot be identified”
    So the court acknowledges the non-locality of the Absolute!

    ;-)) But we al know he (God) lives in Australia and is known by the alias ‘Sailor Bob’ !

  85. davidm says:

    MadM: I do not “think” you should take drugs. I was just trying to provide some information for the decision-making process. And I was trying to note that LSD is not as effective as DMT in revealing the ONE-ness of EVERY-thing, but DMT is not for everyone and it might be too much for you. If you want a mind-altering and life-altering experience, then it is something to consider.

    You are wondering about Cameron and Steve. I would extrapolate, based upon their articulate discourse on non-duality, that they have injested/injected/inhaled numerous psychotropics–they are not just shortcuts but really do offer a glimpse at what IS and IS NOT!

  86. Helen says:

    Come on, Cam!

    Where’s part two?

    Helen in LA

  87. kris says:

    Steve/Cam, we REALLY need a show! This comment board is out of control. Clearly everyone is jonesing (albeit perhaps for different things)… Personally, I need a podcast!!

  88. tomasz says:

    “that they have injested/injected/inhaled numerous psychotropics”

    This is very clear in part 2 when they collectively take DMT, but because some seekers would be dissapointed It won’t be shown!

  89. tomasz says:

    At about minute two of a DMT trip, according to McKenna, you burst through a chrysanthemum-like mandala, and find that there’s a whole bunch of entities waiting on the other side, saying “How wonderful that you’re here! You come so rarely! We’re so delighted to see you!”

    Wallach further proposes that in this way waking consciousness can be thought of as a controlled psychedelic experience.

    DMT is created in small amounts by the human body during normal metabolism.
    So maybe realisation is just a pumping up of the metabolism 🙂

  90. Cameron says:

    Kris, hehe yeah. I’m actually in the US at the moment, might have to wait until I get back home.

  91. Mark says:

    Hey Cam and Steve,

    Would love a new show! “I” think “I” need it.


  92. MadMama says:

    I’m hoping this uncovering of my true nature comes without an acid trip!!!! Although, I know a few born again christains who could benefit from a good dose of something!!!!!!! he he!

  93. marcelo says:

    94 comments! thats crazy… does the 100th comment-er get a free realization?

  94. Bob Seal says:

    Hey Cameron, My ego can’t take it anymore, I’m in part two aren’t I?
    Want MY 15 seconds of fame NOW!
    NOW I tell you, ME, ME, ME!
    How can I uncover my true nature if I don’t get air time! LOL.

    What an excuse Cameron, “I’m in the US!!”
    That’s almost as bad as Sailor Bob’s laughing guru trick.

    Some nice listening at Urban Guru Cafe while you are waiting people . . .

  95. brando says:

    Dan, DavidM, and Sig thank you for your replies.

    quote DavidM said:
    Since everything, even time, exists in all states (”at once”) everything that will be already has been. Nothing is not predetermined. end of quote.

    Can you please explain what you mean by this, and how do you know this?
    From what perspective can you view everything, all times, at once?
    Not from the churchtower i presuppose.
    Where is that place then that gives you such an overview i am curious 🙂

    Sig, if the mother and child are made of the same substance, there is no separation where the mother ends and the child begins.
    I never took drugs to experience a more nondual state then ordinary waking.
    My opinion is that drugs are bad for the body.

    Recently i have watched “what the bleep do we know and part 2 down the rabbit hole” for the first time in one day. The next day i watched “nirvana means extinction and part 2 the end of self-consciousness” both by stephen wolinsky a direct disciple of the Niz.
    Good stuff. Wolinsky discards some ideas about the power of intention / choice as false. The quantum physics people in the what the bleep movies do believe in such ideas wich constrasts with the ancient & updated advaita teaching.
    What i would allso like to say about what i have seen comes from the last dvd i watched wich is part 3 in the “I AM THAT I AM” series from
    in my own words, what is is an illusion, it seems to be but it isn’t. there is only the void and i am the void, non-existence.


  96. davidm says:

    brando, in order to appreciate the “oneness” of what is, it is important to acknowledge that everything that happens at any point in time is completely and utterly dependent on what has already happened. Then:

    o all things in this universe are the result of what happened before;
    o there is no free will; there is even no distinct “will”;
    o once the universe was “initialized” all things/events that would ever happen were already predetermined;

    Just like the rock that has left a child’s slingshot and is making its way to a window in its parents’ house that it will eventually break, that window is truly broken when the rock left the slingshot. Trying to find a perspective where you can view everything at all times at once is pointless. Recognize that what was IS, what is IS, and what will be IS and what some people think of as their corporeal body and their incorporeal spirit does not exist independently of the rest of the universe. Everything is part of a single unitary whole and this is what is.

  97. marcelo says:

    Yes, yes drugs are very bad for you… very very bad for you… say no to drugs kids… just say no… ummm…. seekers should never do drugs, because they are very very bad for you… and, shit, you may actually become an interesting person if you do them rather than go on and on and on like a bunch of tiresome… so yes, for seekers… drugs are very very very bad for you.

  98. Mark says:

    Cam & Steve! Good God! Ow! Get on the good foot – like a sex machine! Take it to the BRIDGE! Give us a new show!

  99. marcelo says:

    Congratulations Mark… you are our 100th commenter!!!!

    You have two choices two doors- behind the first door is our very special prize, You get one year supply of constant realizations, plus! You get a romantic dinner and dance night with your choice of Cam, Bob or Steven.

    Or if you choose door number two, you’ll get FULLY REALIZED!!!!! No more questions no more answeres, you get to get on with your life!!!!!

    So, Mark, what will it be – door number one or door number two?

    Jane, can we start the Advaita clock please — tic toc tic toc tic toc tic time is just a concept toc tic toc tic toc…

    time is up Mark, what will you do? Door number one, or door number two?

  100. brando says:

    very interesting davidm.
    have you seen the movie the butterfly effect (1 and 2) davidm?

    franklin merrell-wolff states that what can be said about the universe of objects is that it seems to exist, no more, so saying that the universe of objects IS, would be too much and not true.
    stephen wolinsky states something like everything is illusion, and his definition of illusion on is that what seems to exists, but doesn’t (like a mirage).
    that is explained in the latest dvd in the i am that i am series.
    so davidm i do not agree with you, bob and western philosophy saying that ‘what is is’
    for i agree with merrell-wolff who states that there is no ‘ding an sich’ (wilhelm kant)
    or ‘no objective world out there’, and following that i agree somewhat with wolinsky that there is only the voidless void (total negation), and in my own words there is no ‘what is’
    there is only ‘seemingness’, there is only an absolute absence of what is, wich is not.

    bye, brando

  101. davidm says:

    brando, readers may think we are primarily discussing semantics. however, arguably, what seems to be implies a point of view which implies a perspective which implies there are multiple perspectives and the nature of the universe is based upon which perspective is used, which implies a duality between the perspective and the rest of the universe. in aggregate all perspectives are part of the universe of what is and cannot be separated from it.

  102. Max says:

    Good business re: tackling the issue of psychedelics. The guy who says you have to work hard at things makes an interesting point; that is, how common it is for people in our culture to think everything has to be a struggle. I disagree with that, and I second what davidm has to say, that “it’s not about achieving…it’s just about what IS!” It’s an experience that happens in the moment, it’s just an overlaying of the nothingness. I think that a lot of this stuff (eastern mysticism and so on) has its origins in the use of these plants. Some say that Jesus was a mushroom! Amen

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